HearthStone?

Moderator

Achilles.42 wrote:: I scrapped all the first decks i had made, cuz they were the sucksauce

The warrior deck wasnt that bad, with a few adjustments it could be good

Achilles.42 wrote:: but now i have a leetsauce priest deck. Its kinda vulnerable to rush decks, but i dont think i've lost to anything else with it. Mind control OP, its great. I also have two "double minion HP" cards, which are hilarious whenever i can use them in the same turn. one person gg'd right after i did that, even though his hero still had 15 health.

You can combine that with inner fire (make a minions attack equal to its health) all in the same turn and hit someone for a crazy amount in 1 turn
Im not using it in my deck because i dont want to get rid of anything to make room for it
Also a combo like that can be silenced pretty easily, at lower leagues people wont really use silence (mainly because you dont get any silence to start with) but in diamond and masters silence is used a lot so you cant really do fun stuff like that

Im still not using silence because i still havent gotten spell breakers or even an ironbeak owl, the priest has a card that silences but thats all it does so it sucks in comparison to spell breaker, or keeper of the grove for druid, or even earth shock for shaman, least that deals 1 dmg too
Priest also has an aoe silence which is utterly worthless (4 cost thats incredibly situational that youll probably only use once every 20 games)

Achilles.42 wrote:: I wish that spinner would some times land on something besides "worthy opponent"
although i guess its good enough that you get to see all the funny 1 liners.

They will probably sell certain ones like titles, so the people that buy them will show up as that title to the other person

Achilles.42 wrote:: ALSO, im a pro 2 star silver player now. so, ya know. pretty big deal

You should get to diamond pretty easily, i got stuck at 2 star diamond, the only way i can move up anymore is if i win against a masters player, which is unlikely because it seems like masters players have every card since every deck i fight after going on a winning streak from beating diamond players has all the cards it needs to be perfect

Sergeant

ive alrdy played some, but i finally got my own ffslayer#1979

Commander

I think i've finally gotten not-horrible at making decks.

It helped to watch one of day9's dailies he did on it.
He talked about thinkin threw plans when making your deck, making strong compisitions/combos, then adding cards that help you get to those combos.
Which was a really helpful way to think of things

Before i was falling too much into the pattern of "well thats a good card, i should put it in"

I've only done this with my priest so far. But it felt like it worked really well, cus i knew what my strategy was when i was playing, instead of just trying to play a bunch of good cards to win, which was my standard game plan before.

Hopefully it'll work that well with all my decks : P

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pat1487 wrote:: They will probably sell certain ones like titles, so the people that buy them will show up as that title to the other person

It'd make sense if they started having it display leagues. could still sell prefixes/endfixes to your league.

pat1487 wrote:: You should get to diamond pretty easily

with my new gosu deck building skills they'll probably have to invent grandmaster league just for me.

pat1487 wrote:: Im still not using silence because i still havent gotten spell breakers or even an ironbeak owl, the priest has a card that silences but thats all it does so it sucks in comparison to spell breaker, or keeper of the grove for druid, or even earth shock for shaman, least that deals 1 dmg too
Priest also has an aoe silence which is utterly worthless (4 cost thats incredibly situational that youll probably only use once every 20 games)

Is there any way to trade cards? or, are they planning on implementing the ability? not that youre getting my iron beak owl. but it'd be a intereseting feature.
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Also: did anyone watch yugioh? because suddenly this all quite relevant.
And luckily hearthstone is infinitely better than anything that came out of yugioh : P
Abridged series Ep 1.

Playlist link

Commander

Double post cus im mad as hell and im not gonna take it any more!

hatechu pat. making me feel bad for not reading your topics when i definitely had.

pat1487 wrote:: I had the chance to use Ysera, a legendary card that i want (imo the best legendary card in the game)
A mage played it in a game where i was playing priest, i mind controlled it right away and it was cool

I read everything in that post, even the stuff about ysera.
I even responded to the stuff above ysera.
I just didn't remember it when kallock brought it up since i hadn't played any hearthstone yet, so i didn't have any schemas to help me remember names/details.

I cant believe you'd exploit my memory like this.

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On a less hysteric note

pat1487 wrote:: I would say that hearthstone is a bit pay to win with how card packs are bought and how gold is difficult/slow to get, but all card games like this are a bit pay to win since you buy card packs for all of them, so its pretty normal for it to be like that
Judging from the amount of money people are will to spend on beta keys they will probably make millions within weeks
I do wish they would make gold easier to get, and sell cosmetic stuff too, like foil cards, or different hero characters

Im actually really happy so far with how they balanced card strength vs 'skill'
Cuz i've beaten several people that have had better cards than me (specifically, people that have the legendary card you get when you buy a deck durring the beta) because they made bad decisions.

Moderator

Achilles.42 wrote:: I think i've finally gotten not-horrible at making decks.

It helped to watch one of day9's dailies he did on it.
He talked about thinkin threw plans when making your deck, making strong compisitions/combos, then adding cards that help you get to those combos.
Which was a really helpful way to think of things

Thats what i meant when i said this:

Pat1487 wrote:

Achilles.42 wrote:: but i threw together a couple custom decks:
one is just a mass weak creature deck, so all the creatures with charge and all the creatures that had the "summon a 1/1 creature" battle cry ability.

This type of deck works really well with shammy, because of bloodlust, if you can keep all your stuff alive you can use bloodlust to give everything +3 attack and just murder everything, throw a raid leader in there, flametounge totem, frostwolf warlord, knife jugglers, and that card that grants windfury to a minion and you have a rush down deck with potentially a turn 5 8/8 (with raid leader and flametounge on the board it would be 12/8, if you give it windfury you can deal 24 damage on turn 6 with just that 1 minion)

All those cards that i mentioned work well together and have good synergy, and it works well with the hero power because totems count as minions too

Achilles.42 wrote:: Before i was falling too much into the pattern of "well thats a good card, i should put it in"

There are certain good cards that work in pretty much every deck and that most people are using
Those are, harvest golem, defender of argus, argent commander, shattered sun cleric, dark iron dwarf, azure drake, and chillwind yeti
Theres a few others like novice engineer/loot hoarder, acolyte of pain, knife juggler and argent squire depending on the deck (fairy dragon and acidic swamp ooze are up there too, but people seem to use those less and less now)
The first 7 cards make up half of every masters players deck the rest are class cards for removal and a few combos, they will also have ragnaros and/or sylvanas windrunner (the 2 legendaries every masters player uses)
Its the same in diamond too, except most diamond players dont have 2 copies of each of those cards (or any of the legendaries) so youll only see 1 of some of them
My warlock deck uses 5 of those cards, in fact i put shattered sun cleric in every deck i have, and novice engineer in most of them even before i knew about these cards being good in general, i use chillwind yeti in my mage deck (which i made before knowing this) and i wouldve used it in my priest deck too but i put in darkscale healer instead (cause it has the same stats as a yeti, but synergizes with priest stuff more since it heals every friendly character for 2hp, and only costs 1 more mana
Those 3 were the only basic ones from that list, and it was obvious that they were good in general

So you can put good cards in like that, the important thing is having synergy so that your cards work well together and that your hero power works well with your cards

Achilles.42 wrote:: Is there any way to trade cards? or, are they planning on implementing the ability? not that youre getting my iron beak owl. but it'd be a intereseting feature.

You cant trade and im pretty sure they wont be adding it since theres a mass disenchanting thing that says "you only ever need 2 of each card" that people have used to destroy thousands of extra cards that couldve been traded

Achilles.42 wrote:: Also: did anyone watch yugioh? because suddenly this all quite relevant.
And luckily hearthstone is infinitely better than anything that came out of yugioh : P

I watched the original yu gi oh when i was a kid on saturday mornings, back when saturday morning cartoons were awesome, i didnt see all of it though
Ive also seen the abridged series which is hilarious
Whenever i have to topdeck or i need a specific card to deal with something in any card game (even now in hearthsone) i think of the heart of the cards

Achilles.42 wrote:: Im actually really happy so far with how they balanced card strength vs 'skill'
Cuz i've beaten several people that have had better cards than me (specifically, people that have the legendary card you get when you buy a deck durring the beta) because they made bad decisions.

Yeah they balanced it pretty well, its still hard to compete with someone that spent a lot of money since they will have all the cards and can make the best decks without having to compromise (like how i was using young priestess instead of blood imp, since i didnt have blood imp at the time, or how i might use the crappy priest silence since i still dont have spellbreaker)

The special legendary card kind of sucks though, its the most rng card in the game, slayer was complaining about how theres too much rng in the game, he listed most of the rng cards and i said he listed almost all of the rng cards right there (theres actually about 15 of them, but most people only use like 7 of them and slayer listed 3 or 4 of those 7)
He didnt list mekkatorque though, which summons a random invention that does random things to random things, like turning a random minion into a 1/1 chicken, or healing a random damaged character

I remember one game where i was losing hard (with my pally deck) i had less then 10 hp and he was on full, we were both top decking, i didnt think i could win but i figured since i could keep putting a 1/1 on the board every turn + whatever i drew i could get some solid board control after awhile, as long as he didnt pull something that could just kill me out right, but i was probably going to lose
Then he summoned mekkatorque and the invention it made was the 1 that heals damaged characters so i threw everything on my board into his mekkatorque (because that was the only way i could kill it and i didnt think id get a better way to kill it if i waited) and left the repair bot alive to heal me, several more turns passed where i played a stormwind champion and he played a few little guys that i was able to kill with my 2/2s from the hero power and eventually i was at full hp (i purposely didnt attack him so that i was the only thing the repair bot could heal) and once i was back at 30 i killed the bot and proceeded to decimate him with a board full of 2/2s, a 6/6, and like a 5/6 or something else strong

That isnt the only time though, every time someone has played mekkatorque when they were ahead against me it ended up working in my favor cause i would just leave the invention alive and get the benefits, theres only 1 invention that benefits the person that uses the card, which is the one that draws 3 cards, but theres only a 25% chance they will get that one where as theres a 50% chance to get one thats bad for them, and a 25% chance to get 1 that can be either
Even if they play it when they are behind it doesnt work out for them because even though theres a 75% chance to get something good for them but its very easily killed off and you wont really be able to protect the invention when your behind, and your still running the 25% risk of helping the other person

Also slayer, the idea behind rng in this game is to get the board in a state where your rng isnt rng, like using multishot when theres only 2 minions left to hit, or deadly shot when theres only 1 tough minion, or arcane missiles when theres 1 weak minion on the field
Mad bomber is always rng though since it hits anything, but you could still use it like arcane missiles (just not as good)
Playing an rng card when the probability of what you want is low is never a good play, sometimes your forced into it, but it shouldnt happen that often

And you were talking about board clear and how hunters dont have any, they have as much as most of the other classes have
Priest and pally have the same type of board clear, 2 dmg to everything, theirs is more expensive but can be used exactly when they want
Pally can also use equality to wipe the enemy board completely, but this requires 2 cards (consecration and equality)

Druid has starfall (2 dmg to all enemy minions, also very expensive) and swipe (4 dmg to 1 character, 1 dmg to everything else)

Rogue has fan of knives (1 dmg to everything) and vanish which doesnt actually kill anything, it just sends all minions back to the players hands, although if you play it when the enemy has 8-10 cards in hand you can end up destroying some of them since they go back to a full hand, and blade flurry, which requires a weapon (deals weapon dmg to all enemy minions, and destroys the weapon) its pretty powerful but expensive in that you use 2 cards to do it and you might lose a weapon that had 3 or 4 durability (also you might not have a weapon in hand at the time you need it in which case it only deal 1 dmg to everything for like 4 mana which is terrible)

Warrior has the worst board clear with just whirlwind which only deals 1 damage (and it hits friendly minions too)

Shaman has lightning storm, which does 2-3 dmg, although youll usually have a spell power totem up when you use it so its really 3-4 dmg to all enemies but it overloads you for the next turn

The only classes with an amazing board wipe are mage and warlock
Mage has flamestrike (4dmg aoe), blizzard (2 dmg aoe and freeze), and arcane explosion (1 dmg aoe)
Warlock has hellfire (3 dmg aoe, but also hits friendly characters), infernal which is a 1 dmg aoe (again this hits your stuff too), and twisting nether, the most powerful aoe that destroys all minions (including your own)

Honestly i think hunter board wipe is 1 of the better ones since its cost is so low and its a secret, it makes people afraid to do certain things and can be played pretty early to wipe out 90% of the early game minions people will play
Priest, druid and warrior have the worst ones, warrior i already said, priest and druid wipe is expensive, both cost 5 (swipe is 4), at least holy nova heals your stuff too for that 5 mana, starfall only deals that 2 dmg (so its like a more expensive consecrate, you can choose to use it to deal 5 dmg to 1 thing which is probably why it costs 5, but its still not worth it)

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Im thinking about taking out the infernals from my warlock deck and putting in another stormwind chapmion and the beast (that legendary card i got)
I think both of those cards fit my deck better then the infernals do, especially since infernals kill off my blood imp which means i cant play them until the enemy manages to kill my blood imp and i rarely find myself in a position where i need that 1 aoe damage (it really only helps vs pally)
I already have 1 stormwind champion in the deck, and its pretty good to buff my flame imps and void walkers if im able to keep them alive to that point or if i dont get them till later, so a 2nd one would be good, especially since i end up discarding it sometimes with doomguard
Also the beast costs the same mana as the infernal and deals massive damage pretty early, even if it gets killed by a removal spell or a bunch of minions its not like im relying on it like how that druid deck was, the main problem is mind control but id have at least 2 turns with it before priest could play mind control (assuming its in my hand on or before turn 6), and even if i dont it only has 7 hp, a shadow bolt and a 3/X can kill it which will get me a 3/3 back when it dies, so basically i can kill it with a shadow bolt which is better then the infernal since if that gets mind controled i have to spend a 2/X and a shadow bolt, except my deck doesnt really have a 2/X so id still have to use a 3/X to finish it off and i dont get a 3/3 back
And i rarely use demon fire on the infernal so theres no benefit of it being a demon
I was also thinking of dropping 1 or both mortal strikes and putting 1 or 2 succubus in, but i feel like thats too much card discard since i also have the doomguards (at least with those i can usually play them with nothing in my hand, where as succubus i would want to play really early)
I might put swamp ooze in instead, also i might get rid of novice engineers since warlock has his hero power for a lot of card draw already, put in swamp ooze or some other 3/2 minion for 2 mana so i can get even more early game board control

Commander

pat1487 wrote:: There are certain good cards that work in pretty much every deck and that most people are using
Those are, harvest golem, defender of argus, argent commander, shattered sun cleric, dark iron dwarf, azure drake, and chillwind yeti

Yeah, i saw that video too : P
But i meant more so the hero specific cards since
Those are where you have to figure out unique-ish compositions for each deck--even if you use similar neutral cards for all of them.

pat1487 wrote:: Whenever i have to topdeck or i need a specific card to deal with something in any card game (even now in hearthsone) i think of the heart of the cards

exactly.

pat1487 wrote:: The special legendary card kind of sucks though, its the most rng card in the game

oohhh. i didn't realize how much it works like mad bomber (yolo-bomber as Psy calls it). I keep assuming cards cant have negative effects on you. I've lost multiple games cus i keep making that misinterpretation.
And every time someones played mekkatorque i killed the invention asap based on that assumption : (

pat1487 wrote:: also i might get rid of novice engineers since warlock has his hero power for a lot of card draw already, put in swamp ooze or some other 3/2 minion for 2 mana so i can get even more early game board control

Im starting to dislike novice.
for 2 mana drawing a card is good i guess, but its so often such a useless minion that i'd rather just have a 3/2 for 2 mana a lot of the time.

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You mentioned AoE to clear the board.
This is one thing thats annoyed me in the ccg's i've played (maybe magic wasn't like this. i cant really remember).
But i feel like AoE is made too powerful and it devalues minions to a silly extent.
What i mean, is how things like flamestrike have no limit on how many minions it can effect beyond the board limit (i.e. total damage output), and spells like mind control and shadow-word-(3 mana) dont have an upward attack/hp target limit.

Cus to me i dislike the way things scale. Cus theoretically you could have a flamestrike that coasts 7 mana kill 7 minions that each cost 4 mana on average, which means you used 7 mana to counter 28. 1 turn undid several turns worth of work.
And with mind control. you could have buffed a creature with a multitude of spells, yet 1 spell counters all other spells. again, 1 turn undid several turns work.

But im just being bitchy, cus hearthstones not as bad with this as im making it sound.

Moderator

Achilles.42 wrote:: oohhh. i didn't realize how much it works like mad bomber (yolo-bomber as Psy calls it). I keep assuming cards cant have negative effects on you. I've lost multiple games cus i keep making that misinterpretation.
And every time someones played mekkatorque i killed the invention asap based on that assumption : (

All you have to do is read what the invention does and then decide wether or not it can benefit you
Any time anyone plays a card you havent seen or dont understand you should mouse over it and read what it says to check if theres some way you can make it benefit you
Like me and slayer were playing and he played a card that gives the enemy a mana crystal (why hes using that card i dont know) which i have but have never seen used so i read it and i was playing my rogue deck so i sapped it to get even more mana
If my rogue deck had been a normal deck i wouldve been way ahead

Achilles.42 wrote:: Im starting to dislike novice.
for 2 mana drawing a card is good i guess, but its so often such a useless minion that i'd rather just have a 3/2 for 2 mana a lot of the time.

3/2s are too easy to get rid of in the early game, most people have spells that deal 2 dmg, the only deck i would use 3/2s in would be a warlock deck since bloodimp can buff them to 3/3s and because of the way i play warlock (very agressively)
The engineer is good to play at the start because even though it only has 2 life people are less willing to burn a 2 dmg spell on something that only does 1 dmg, plus it replaces itself with a card so you can get something on the board without losing any cards
And if it lives long enough, which is likely because people will ignore 1/2s a lot of the time in order to clear other stuff, you can buff it
The card that i dislike is the 2/4 that draws a card, i used that at first instead of the engineer, but its way too expensive for what it is

The loot hoarder might be better than the engineer though, cause it can kill a 3/2 and if they dont play a 3/2 it can deal more dmg, the main problem is that it sucks vs mage and pally, especially mage

Achilles.42 wrote:: You mentioned AoE to clear the board.
This is one thing thats annoyed me in the ccg's i've played (maybe magic wasn't like this. i cant really remember).
But i feel like AoE is made too powerful and it devalues minions to a silly extent.
What i mean, is how things like flamestrike have no limit on how many minions it can effect beyond the board limit (i.e. total damage output), and spells like mind control and shadow-word-(3 mana) dont have an upward attack/hp target limit.

Magic had no limit to the number of stuff aoe could hit, unless the card specifically said there was a limit, but most of them didnt have that, overload cards never had that (overload is different in magic, basically if you spent more mana you could change the cards single target effect to work on every creature making a mass aoe, there was actually a card exactly like flamestike in magic for i think the same cost when overloaded, 3 colorless, 4 red or 4 colorless, 3 red one of those, but 7 land total)
And magic had spells that killed creatures too, black had stuff like murder that could kill any creature regardless of how powerful it was (unless it had protection from black), and white had stuff that would exile creatures no matter how powerull (unless it had protection from white), not only removing the creature but makeing it impossible to get back from the graveyard
All card games have stuff like that, i dont think it devalues minions, you just have to watch out for flamestrike, hold back some stuff if you suspect flamestirke or make sure your stuff will survive the blast
Although i do think minions are more disposable (and hence less valuable) in hearthstone then they were in magic or other games, not because of aoe or removal, but because anything can attack anything, even with taunt your basically just saying "i want you to kill my stuff in a certain order starting with this taunt minion"
In magic people would rarely attack at the begining for several turns if the other person was playing minions of equal strength, or even just playing many weak minions since you can choose how to block when someone attacks in magic, so the attacker was at a big disadvantage

Achilles.42 wrote:: Cus to me i dislike the way things scale. Cus theoretically you could have a flamestrike that coasts 7 mana kill 7 minions that each cost 4 mana on average, which means you used 7 mana to counter 28. 1 turn undid several turns worth of work.
And with mind control. you could have buffed a creature with a multitude of spells, yet 1 spell counters all other spells. again, 1 turn undid several turns work.

Flamestrike cant kill an average of 4 mana, most 4+ mana stuff will survive a flamestrike, the mage would have to use something else to finish off everything that lived, the only stuff that would die outright is 3 mana or less so you cant really average it out like that since some will survive and some wont
It costs 7 mana to kill a board full of 3 mana stuff, the earliest a mage can play it is turn 6 with the coin so you should have stuff that will survive out by then unless you didnt get any 4 5 or 6 cost minions, and the 3 mana stuff that you played early game served their purpose and can die happily knowing that they have forced a flamestike to be used

And you shouldnt stack a bunch of stuff on 1 minion and expect it to not be killed/silenced/stolen asap, at max put 2 on 1 thing, the same is true for magic and any other card game
Although in magic certain enchantments were equipable, so if the creature that had a bunch of those died the enchatments could be equiped to something else, so like imagine if you could transfer divine spirit from 1 minion to another at a mana cost, except in magic you could destroy individual enchantments (or all of them like silence)

Mind control isnt that hard to deal with, slayer was complaining about priests when we played when i used my priest deck, just make sure you can kill the stuff you play, like how i was talking about using the beast in my warlock deck and how it would only take a shadow bolt for me to kill it (in theory)
I do think it should be counter-able though, its dumb that its not, they should make it so that if you silence a mind controlled minion it goes back to the owner like the way any other spell effect gets silenced, and when a minion is returned to the hand it should go back to the hand of the person that played it
The shadow words are the same as other classes instant removal spells, except with restrictions on minions with 4 attack (which is why they cost less), but since theres 2 types priests end up with a total of 4 + mind control, 6 total instant removal cards in a deck, so its not that shadow words are too powerfull, its just that theres too many of them, shadow word pain and death should be combined into 1 card that says "Destroy a minion that doesnt have 4 attack", or have it work like starfall or wrath where you have to choose 1 and the cost for each is the same as it is now (it would cost 2 mana initially, and the death option would cost an additional 1 mana where the pain option would cost 0 when given the choice), that way they would only have 2 instant removals like other classes

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Ive seen a new deck type recently, a really funny one that i went up against several times (they were all different people), basically they flood the board with 8/8s within the first 8 turns
Its a warlock that uses twilight drake the 2 giants and faceless manipulator, they use there hero power to take dmg while gaining cards, they play twilight drake on turn 4 for a 4/8 (or turn 3 with the coin for 4/6) then they play mountain giant on turn 5 and faceless manip to copy that mountain giant on turn 6, then molten giant on turn 7 (they end up with a 4/8 and 3 8/8s by turn 7 if you dont manage to kill any of them) then they give the 8/8s taunt with defender of argus and that other card that gives taunt, mind control doesnt work since its too slow, and theres not enough shadow word death/assasinate/polymorph/siphon soul/deadly shot to kill everything (in total they can get 6 8/8s out, worst case scenario they play mountain giant turn 4 and 5, copy 1 of the 8/8s on turn 6, then another faceless to copy another 8/8 on turn 7, then 2 molten giants on turn 8 if the enemy ignored the giants and just tried to rush the warlock down since molten giant is free at 10hp, which i made the mistake of doing the first time i saw it when he played a mountain giant on turn 4 and i had no answer other than to try to just ignore it and do as much dmg as i could, if they are at 15hp which is likely from all the life tap and dmg that your doing, they can lifetap, hellfire, kill most of your stuff then play 2 molten giants for free on turn 8 or even 7 depending on how much dmg theyve taken)

Commander

pat1487 wrote:: All you have to do is read what the invention does and then decide wether or not it can benefit you
Any time anyone plays a card you havent seen or dont understand you should mouse over it and read what it says to check if theres some way you can make it benefit you
Like me and slayer were playing and he played a card that gives the enemy a mana crystal (why hes using that card i dont know) which i have but have never seen used so i read it and i was playing my rogue deck so i sapped it to get even more mana
If my rogue deck had been a normal deck i wouldve been way ahead

yeahyeahyeah
i always read the cards. usually even when i already know them.
i was saying that i assume things work certain ways because thats what makes sense to me, so i misinterpret things.
once i get more used to the game i wont make those mistakes
But i should more actively think about things being able to benefit me that wouldn't normally.

pat1487 wrote:: Flamestrike cant kill an average of 4 mana, most 4+ mana stuff will survive a flamestrike, the mage would have to use something else to finish off everything that lived, the only stuff that would die outright is 3 mana or less so you cant really average it out like that since some will survive and some wont

I feel like with the more minions on the board the more are going to have partial damage already done to them since they probably used them to make good trades and not just do direct damage, so they'll be some expensive minions in the kill zone to bring up the average.
Maybe 4 was too high.
ill go with 3.95 average mana as my final answer : P

pat1487 wrote:: they should make it so that if you silence a mind controlled minion it goes back to the owner like the way any other spell effect gets silenced, and when a minion is returned to the hand it should go back to the hand of the person that played it

that would make a lot of sense. i like that.

pat1487 wrote:: Ive seen a new deck type recently, a really funny one that i went up against several times (they were all different people), basically they flood the board with 8/8s within the first 8 turns

thats creative. i like how it circumvents all the early board clearing cards.
best kind of rush deck.

Moderator

Achilles.42 wrote:: i was saying that i assume things work certain ways because thats what makes sense to me, so i misinterpret things

Oh, i guess if you dont play card games that much you wouldnt think that what the card says is literal even after reading it, so like if it says "Heal a random character for 3" you would just assume it means a random friendly character when really it means any character since it doesnt specifically say "Heal a random friendly character for 3"

Really you should be able to attack your own minions with weapons since the weapons dont specifically say you have to attack enemies, but other then that everything else is literal

Achilles.42 wrote:: I feel like with the more minions on the board the more are going to have partial damage already done to them since they probably used them to make good trades and not just do direct damage, so they'll be some expensive minions in the kill zone to bring up the average.
Maybe 4 was too high.
ill go with 3.95 average mana as my final answer : P

Thats what i meant by using something else, everything with 5 hp has 3 or more attack so if you hit a 5 hp thing with a 3/2, 2/3, or 1/3 earlier in the game in order to get it down into flamestrike range you spent that card and the flamestrike to kill it later, the best you can do is use a 3/5 to put it into flamestrike range since a 4/4 or 4/5 puts it low enough for the hero power to kill anyway, so it is higher then 3 i guess because of that 3/5 potential, but its more like 3.3, if you count 2/7 minions it would be closer to 4, but the only 2/7 people use is the beserker and by the time you can use flamestirke the beserker will have at least 5 attack so whatever you throw into it to get it into flamestirke range will die

Achilles.42 wrote:

pat1487 wrote:: they should make it so that if you silence a mind controlled minion it goes back to the owner like the way any other spell effect gets silenced, and when a minion is returned to the hand it should go back to the hand of the person that played it

that would make a lot of sense. i like that.

This is 1 time where the literal card text thing can be interpreted in different ways
Since it says "return a minion to its owners hand" who is the owner really, the person currently controlling it, or the person that played it originally
You would think the person controlling it is the owner but since mind control just says "Take control of an enemy minion" and not "Take control of an enemy minion and become its owner" you could say that the person that took it isnt the owner, hes just the person currently controlling it
Most games treat "owner" as the person that started the game with the card in his deck which makes the most sense to me, hearthstone treats the controlling player as the owner

In magic it got weird, cause you could have ffa games with 3 or more people
So like if me you and slayer were playing an ffa game and i play a card that plays a random creature from slayers deck (lets say a 4/5 for this example), and then you kill slayer the 4/5 is exiled so i cant use it anymore (since its slayers creature and hes no longer in the game)
Or if you mind control the 4/5 from me and then slayer kills you it goes back to me (since the mind control enchantment that you played is exiled when you die)
Or if i kill slayer after you mind control it from me its exiled and your mind control goes to your graveyard
And if i die its exiled (since im the one that played it even though it was played from slayers deck)
Basically when you die any cards you own or played are exiled

Also i really hope hearthstone has teams and ffa some day, ffa is so fun

Achilles.42 wrote:: thats creative. i like how it circumvents all the early board clearing cards.
best kind of rush deck.

Every game i played today (except 1) was against people using giants
Mage is doing it too, basically the same as i said about warlock, but they use cone of cold, blizzard, and frost nova to stop your minions from attacking while their mountain giants hit you (they polymorph taunt to bypass it)
They cant get the giants out as early as warlock can, but its still pretty powerful since your minions are frozen most of the time
And i saw few shamans do it to, where they play totems/drake (and forked lighting/lightning storm if they really have to) the first 5 turns then mountain giant turn 6, and sea giant turn 7 (sea giant will be earlier depending on how many minions you played)
Neither of those are as strong as the warlock giant deck though, the mage version is the most reliable though, since your guaranteed to deal at least 16 dmg with giants which is enough to finish the game with pyroblast/fireball

The one person that wasnt using giants was playing a mage that did the freeze thing, but used fairy dragon on turn 1 with coin, then mana worm and mirror image turn 2, cleric on the dragon turn 3, defender of argus on the mana worm and dragon turn 4, frost nova, arcane missles and frost bolt on turn 5, blizzard on turn 6, flamestrike turn 7, and pyro blast to finish me on turn 8

Commander

pat1487 wrote:: In magic it got weird, cause you could have ffa games with 3 or more people

I really want them to add ffa and team games, that'd be so cool.
Especially since i feel like the 1v1 system is in danger of being boring to people that dont play a lot.
Cus i feel like its going to have a similar feel as sc2's ladder does, in that it takes a lot of work to progress through leagues after awhile.
But for different reasons, obviously. Sc2 because of how difficult the game is. hearthstone because of how long it takes to get all the good cards.

quote wrote:: Neither of those are as strong as the warlock giant deck though, the mage version is the most reliable though, since your guaranteed to deal at least 16 dmg with giants which is enough to finish the game with pyroblast/fireball

I feel like mage decks with that should also work really well with control cards, cus like you said it was effective because of how much time they spent being frozen.

Moderator

There was a patch yesterday

They changed the ladder system so that there is 25 ranks
You start at rank 25 and work your way up, getting to rank 20 is easy, you just need 12 wins (it doesnt matter how many times you lose as long as you get a total of 12 wins youll be rank 20), if you go on a winning streak you need less wins as you get more stars and will progress faster, so 12 is the maximum you need

Starting at rank 20 your losses actually matter, you lose a star after every loss and gain 1 after every win and you need 3 stars to progress to the next rank, im not sure what happens if you lose a start when you have 0 stars in your rank, i do know that you can get to 0 stars though

Since the ladder reset all the masters players are in the lower leagues as they work their way back up, so every other game i got was against someone that used to be in masters, you can tell former masters players cause of the type of cards they have, and that they have 2 copies of all of them
So im only winning half my games like i was back in diamond when i ended up against masters players
Its actually really weird to play 1 game where you opponent has a poorly constructed deck and is making terrible decisions, then to play a game right after that against a ridiculous deck and someone who is clearly experienced
Im probably going to wait awhile until the former masters players get higher rank just so it easier to gain rank until i get up to a rank where its actually worth trying to beat them

They made some balance changes to

Mind control is now 10 mana
I still think they shouldve nerfed this in a different way, but having it at 10 mana is fine i guess, at least its something

Shattered sun cleric is now a 3/2
I really hate this change, i dont think it needed the hp loss, im pretty sure they only nerfed it because everyone is using it, if they had to nerf it id rather they made it a 2/2 for 2 mana or a 3/2 for 2 mana, the other 3/2s with battle cries are only 2 mana, so why is it 3, even knife juggler is only 2 mana and that can trigger multiple times
I dont like 3/2s and a 3/2 for 3 mana is even worse, its almost worthless now, may as well just replace it with defender of argus who can buff 2 minions in the same way and is a 3/3 for only 1 more mana

Argent commander is now a 4/2
Again they nerfed this card cause everyone is using it, it still costs 6 mana, it really should cost 5 now with its stats, honestly though it didnt actually change anything, since it will still trade 2 cards for 1 most of the time because of the divine shield, only now you can kill it with aoe or a 2 dmg spell after it kills 1 of your minions, people might use the 2/7 creatures more since those cards can counter argent now and live (or that 2/5 charge)

Flame imp deals 3 dmg to you now
Playing 2 flame imps deal 6 dmg to you which is insane since its so easy to remove, plus if you go first and flame imp the 2nd person can coin to get their own 3/2 out the very next turn without taking dmg so theres no benefit to your 3/2 being 1 mana, and you cant ignore his 3/2 with your flame imp cause then youll take a bunch of dmg really early since drain life costs 3 mana, and mortal coil only deals 1 dmg, you dont have any spells that do 2 dmg for 2 mana so you have to trade your guy out, you could wait for turn 3 to use drain life on it, but then you still took 1 dmg from it and he can probably deal 2 dmg to it with a spell on his turn with 2 mana so if you dont trade out your flame imp you run the risk of him removing it and leaving you with nothing until turn 4 (since turn 3 is dedicated to removing his 3/2)
Im actaully thinking of not playing warlock anymore, the amount of dmg you do to yourself is too high now, 2 uses of your hero power and 2 flame imps is a third of your hp gone, drain life doesnt heal enough to offset it anymore
I might just drop the flame imps and put in 2 chillwind yetis since you can coin those out on turn 3 for early board control, maybe only drop 1 of them, or maybe ill just replace them with other 3/2s maybe succubus

Unleash the hounds was completely changed, its now 4 mana and reads "For each enemy minion, summon a 1/1 Hound with Charge”
Its really terrible now, you can combine it with starving buzzard to draw a bunch of cards, and you can use 2 timber wolves to buff them to 3/1s which you would have to wait till turn 6 to do effectively, if your enemy played all 3 hp minions or less you can wipe the board like that, but youd need 2 timber wolves to do it, i guess you could deal 2 dmg with 1 timber wolf to everything on turn 5 like a crappy holy nova, or you could just hit the enemy in the face for a bunch of dmg, against a pally it could be devastating since you let him fill his board with 1/1s then summon the hounds on turn 8

Starving buzzard is now a 2/1
Hunters got the biggest nerfs, starving buzzard is incredibly easy to remove now, pally druid, rogue, and especially mage can just kill it outright (pally is a bit harder) with no losses
I dont think it needed a nerf since nerfing unleash the hounds was enough

Mages got a lot of indirect buffs, in fact everything here is a buff for the mage, arcane explosion can kill argent commander and shattered sun cleric with just 1 spell power minion (so like you can play geomancer and arcane explosion in 1 turn and wipe most of the board) it can also kill all of the hounds and starving buzzards from hunters just on its own, starving buzzard is only 1 hp like i just said so just 2 mana and its dead for no cards, since flame imp deals more dmg mages are stronger against warlocks since they want people to be on low hp so they can finish with pyroblast/fireballs
And the mind control nerf is a buff for everyone

They also improved the graphics and sounds (i like the old taunt sound better though) and fixed a bunch of bugs
And they seemed to have introduced a few new bugs like the card thing me and ach were talking about in the chat

Oh yeah, and they changed the wording on sap, it now says "Return an enemy minion to your opponent's hand." so it looks like the definitely dont want cards like that to counter mind control and decided to change it to avoid confusion like how i was saying

Commander

pat1487 wrote:: Its actually really weird to play 1 game where you opponent has a poorly constructed deck and is making terrible decisions, then to play a game right after that against a ridiculous deck and someone who is clearly experienced

welcome to sc2 : P

pat1487 wrote:: Shattered sun cleric is now a 3/2
I really hate this change, i dont think it needed the hp loss, im pretty sure they only nerfed it because everyone is using it, if they had to nerf it id rather they made it a 2/2 for 2 mana or a 3/2 for 2 mana, the other 3/2s with battle cries are only 2 mana, so why is it 3, even knife juggler is only 2 mana and that can trigger multiple times
I dont like 3/2s and a 3/2 for 3 mana is even worse, its almost worthless now, may as well just replace it with defender of argus who can buff 2 minions in the same way and is a 3/3 for only 1 more mana

Agreed.
I really liked that card for simple combos with whatever you had on the board or hand. And its not like defender of argius where the taunt and +1/1 can be game changing if played at certain times. and sun claric only gives a single +1/1

pat1487 wrote:: Mages got a lot of indirect buffs

I find this frustrating.
I liked hunter decks. i liked warlock decks. (priest probably needed a nerf)
but i dislike mages. i dont like playing them and i dont like playing against them.
of all the things to buff, all-be-it indirectly.

Overall i kinda dislike this patch.
I guess they need to balance cards in the beta, but i feel like they went overboard on it (sun claric, starving buzzard, flame imp)
I feel like it'd be more constructive to buff cards that are alternatives. Make basic cards viable negations to certain cards. or add in basic cards that help out.
Spazzing out on the nerf cannon seems silly to me.
Maybe they want to try out a bunch of nerfs before the open beta, and are going to reverse the ones that are silly. But knowing blizzard, probably not. (Well i dont know blizzard that well. but it felt like the correct thing to say)

Maybe their were a lot of buffs and you just didn't talk about them.
in which case i blame you for being a negative nancy.

Moderator

Achilles.42 wrote:: I find this frustrating.
I liked hunter decks. i liked warlock decks. (priest probably needed a nerf)
but i dislike mages. i dont like playing them and i dont like playing against them.
of all the things to buff, all-be-it indirectly.

Mage is probably the strongest class now, i havent used my mage deck in awhile, im going to have to bring it out for this patch, maybe update it a bit since it was the 2nd deck i made and only has basic cards since i didnt have many cards back when i made it
Hunter went from 1 of the strongest to 1 of the weakest
Warlocks are a bit weaker, priest is about the same

Achilles.42 wrote:: I guess they need to balance cards in the beta, but i feel like they went overboard on it (sun claric, starving buzzard, flame imp)
I feel like it'd be more constructive to buff cards that are alternatives. Make basic cards viable negations to certain cards. or add in basic cards that help out.
Spazzing out on the nerf cannon seems silly to me.

Buffing other cards would probably be worse, since it effects everything, like if you buff some 2 attack stuff to 3 attack to deal with argent commander/cleric you just also made them much better against 4 hp minions since now you only need to deal 1 dmg to finish those off, which is easy/free for a lot of classes
And buffing stuff to fix unleash the hounds would be impossible with the way it used to be, unleash the hounds definitely needed a nerf, they just went too far with it, like if it was just give all your beasts +1 attack for 4 mana it wouldve been fine, the charge part and the fact that it was only 1 mana is what made it OP
The buzzard nerf was way too far, 1 hp is worthless, it should cost 1 mana like the other 2/1s at least then people can get card draw from it later in the game by playing a higher cost beast in the same turn (or 2 mid cost beasts)
The hunter is the only thing they spazzed out on, the other nerfs (except mind control) werent really needed but they arent that bad

Achilles.42 wrote:: Maybe they want to try out a bunch of nerfs before the open beta, and are going to reverse the ones that are silly. But knowing blizzard, probably not. (Well i dont know blizzard that well. but it felt like the correct thing to say)

Maybe, they normally say if its a temporary thing for testing and/or will ask for feedback in the patch notes when theres the possibility that it will be reversed or changed, these changes seem like they are going to stay the way they are

Achilles.42 wrote:: Maybe their were a lot of buffs and you just didn't talk about them.
in which case i blame you for being a negative nancy.

There wasnt a single direct buff to anything

Moderator

I dont know what happened but none of my decks work anymore, before the patch my warlock deck could easily win 5-7 in a row consistently, now it almost never wins, my priest deck is the same, it never did as good as my warlock deck but it wasnt as bad as it is now

I ended up making a warrior deck
The first one i made was an enrage deck, since i have all of the enrage cards and stuff like inner rage, rampage, and whirlwind, i figured an enrage deck would be cool, but no, it sucks, hard, i went 0-5 with it, at first i thought i was just getting bad draws, but 2 of the games i had ideal draws and still lost so i scrapped it
The second deck i made got me from rank 20 to rank 15, i ended up using the cards that everyone uses, the ones i listed above, after playing a deck with none of those cards i see why they are used so much, if you play against someone that also isnt using them you end up trading 1 for 1 almost all the time, if you play against someone that is using them you have to spend 2 cards to deal with 1 of theirs
I really dont like using them since everyone is using them but you really need them to stand a chance against the people that use them, and since everyone is using them you have to use them if you want to progress up the ranks, they should change more then just the hp amounts to get people to stop using them

I also put frothing beserkers in it, which is 1 of the best rares ever(its a 2/4 for 3 that gains +1 attack whenever any minion takes dmg, so you can play it and trade minions out for +2 attack each trade), an imp master (since it deals 1 dmg to itself to spawn an imp it buffs the beserker as it fills the board with imps), the 2/3 minion that gives other minions charge (which only costs 3 mana but i never play it early game unless my enemy as been really passive), leper gnome and loot hoarder (since everyone is playing 3/2s, 2/1s can dominate the early game, people will be afraid to play their 3/2 until they kill your 2/1, and since those 2/1s have a deathrattle, even if it does die you still get a benefit from it), and swamp ooze to get rid of enemy weapons
And a bunch of weapons as well as that pirate that gains the attack of your weapon, its a 2/3 for 2 so its not terrible if you have to play it by itself, but the best thing is you can coin on turn 1 for a firey war axe (kill whatever he played on his turn if he played something), then on turn 2 play the pirate for a 5/3, the only time it doesnt work is if they play the swamp ooze on their turn 2 to destroy your weapon, which sucks, if he doesnt play the ooze your guaranteed to do 5 dmg to his face since you can use the axe to kill anything he plays, even if he silences my 5/3 its still a 2/3 which is fine
Even if you dont get that combo, lets say i get it later in the game, i can play the 5/2 weapon, then the pirate for a 7/3 then give it charge with that 2/3 minion to deal 12 dmg out of no where

I didnt take execute, or anything that can kill stuff that has high hp, or any silence, or any kind of board clear, all of my minions have 4 or less attack and i have almost no spells (i think theres only 1), i rely on pure minion/weapon dmg to kill stuff which works surprisingly well, its actually kindve silly that a deck like this works

The main problem i have is mages, but they are just strong in general right now, most of my stuff has 3 or less hp, some of it has only 1 hp, so mages can remove everything i have really easily, i have to hold back minions until after flamestike, and freeze is super powerful, its frustrating to have all your stuff frozen for several turns, knowing that hes just waiting for turn 7 to flamestirke and you cant do anything about it, usually ill just send out the charge minion, and some sacrificial chargers to keep his board clear until the flamestrike comes, since i have so many minions it doesnt really matter if i lose a few as long as i kill his too
The giants deck is unbeatable though, cause they freeze and i dont have enough dmg output to kill the giants, or to bypass the giants to kill him directly, my only chance is to kill him before giants come out, which i can do, but when i do im not sure if i beat a giants deck or not since they died without playing any giants

The deck also has some trouble vs preists that buff hp, i had 1 person go blade master, circle of healing, powerword shield, divine spirit, inner fire to make an 18/18 on turn 4 with the blade master (he did blademaster and healing on turn 2 with coin, then turn 4 was shield, spirit, and fire), i lost instantly
But against any other hero it works really well

Hunters are severally underpowered now, i deleted my beast deck, i got unleash the hounds in a pack and disenchanted it for 40 dust, im considering disenchanting all my hunter cards, going to wait to see if they change any of the other cards in the next patch first

Commander

pat1487 wrote:: I also put frothing beserkers in it, which is 1 of the best rares ever(its a 2/4 for 3 that gains +1 attack whenever any minion takes dmg, so you can play it and trade minions out for +2 attack each trade), an imp master (since it deals 1 dmg to itself to spawn an imp it buffs the beserker as it fills the board with imps)

You've had that combo when we were doing random decks. It was hard to deal with early since if i dont have any spells to clear it then i either trade the small creatures and am left with 1 big one, or trade badly with the big one and am left with a lot of little minions.

pat1487 wrote:: I didnt take execute, or anything that can kill stuff that has high hp, or any silence, or any kind of board clear, all of my minions have 4 or less attack and i have almost no spells (i think theres only 1), i rely on pure minion/weapon dmg to kill stuff which works surprisingly well, its actually kindve silly that a deck like this works

I like that they made minions strong enough to win on their on. Like i said before, i dislike when ccg's make minions too easily countered by spells.

pat1487 wrote:: The main problem i have is mages

have you tried making another mage deck yet? or no?
I dont like playing them as much just cus they rely on spells
----

i was reading the patch notes and they capped the gold you could win through games each day to 100
which was the complete opposite of the change i was hoping for.
I really wanted them to increase how much gold you got for winning games. maybe 10 each game, instead of 10 every three.
I find rewards through regular wins more compelling than through the arena and daily quests.

Moderator

Achilles.42 wrote:: have you tried making another mage deck yet? or no?
I dont like playing them as much just cus they rely on spells

My old mage deck still works so i havent made a new one, i just dont play it that often mainly because i enjoyed warlock and priest more, and those decks worked better anyway
My old mage deck is mostly minions, it has no freeze, only fireball, frostbolt, polymorph, 1 flamestrike, arcane explosion, and arcane missiles, which is a normal number of spells that most decks will have, it also doesnt use spell power minions, and it doesnt have anything that benefits from spells

Achilles.42 wrote:: i was reading the patch notes and they capped the gold you could win through games each day to 100
which was the complete opposite of the change i was hoping for.
I really wanted them to increase how much gold you got for winning games. maybe 10 each game, instead of 10 every three.
I find rewards through regular wins more compelling than through the arena and daily quests.

To get 100 gold a day you need 30 wins in 1 day, which is possible, but youd have to play for awhile, so i dont think it will be a problem
If they increased the rewards per game (10 per game) then the cap of 100 would be a problem, but they wont do that
It actually used to be 10 gold every 5 wins, they increased it to 10 every 3
They wont do it cause then people wont spend real money on packs since it would only be 10 wins for 1 pack, which is fairly easy to do

What i do is wait until you have 3 quests, then do them all at the same time, like all 3 of mine needed warrior wins (which is why i picked warrior when i made a new deck) so all i had to do was get 5 wins with warrior for 200 gold (after i completed 1 of the quests that needed 2 wins, it gave me another quest that needed 2 warrior wins, so i ended up with 2 quests that gave 60 gold each (5 wins) and 2 that gave 40 gold each) i guess i got lucky that they all lined up like that, but i did abandon 1 of them (druid or rogue wins, which i would never do since i barely have any druid cards and i dont like rogue) and it gave me one that needed warrior wins

---
Also i forgot to mention, once you reach rank 15 you need 5 stars to progress up the ranks, so if your on a win streak you need 2 or 3 wins each rank (you get 2 stars for every win when you're on a win streak), but if you lose you need 5 wins for each rank (technically 6, since a loss makes you lose a star)
Its really hard to progress past 15

Commander

I just played for awhile since i had 3 quests backed up.
I made a mage deck to complete them all sine Mage OP
I won 6 games in a row, but they all seemed rurldumb. so it must have recent my ''mmr''

I put in most of the control cards. Some aoe (flame strike, nova, 3 one damage strike thingy, etc.). Polymorph.
But no fireball. no secrets. i almost put in the defensive one that stops me from dying.
Then i put in all the cards that summon an extra minion, since those are OP.
plus mana worm and a couple cards like Chillwind yeti.
No charge, no taunt. (OH, i did have that 1 mana 0/2 taunt summon. i like that card if i get it early).

I completed all my quests with that deck, plus a hidden quest that gave me 300 gold.
Which gave me enough to buy 4 decks.

I finally got those 2 OP divine shield minions. The 4/2 with charge/shield + the (i forget what defining feature it has besides divine shield)

I got some other cards that i really wanted too, like inner fire for priest, and the totem that lets you draw cards.

EDIT: oh yeah, i redid that deck after i got all my packs.
I was able to replace a ogod number of minions with better cards like argent commander (maybe argent commander isn't the name. but the 4/2 charge, shield). And i have 2 of the 5 mana 4/4 + 2/2

I should be grandmaster next week with this deck.

and FU grandmaster is totally a rank in hearthstone

Commander

pat1487 wrote:: To get 100 gold a day you need 30 wins in 1 day, which is possible, but youd have to play for awhile, so i dont think it will be a problem

yeah. i wasn't saying that it was. its just the opposite type of change i wanted.

pat1487 wrote:: If they increased the rewards per game (10 per game) then the cap of 100 would be a problem, but they wont do that
It actually used to be 10 gold every 5 wins, they increased it to 10 every 3
They wont do it cause then people wont spend real money on packs since it would only be 10 wins for 1 pack, which is fairly easy to do

well. then they obviouslly need to sell more than just packs in their in game store.
drugs should be pretty lucrative.
Just increase the gold rewards and start selling drugs. everybody wins.

pat1487 wrote:: What i do is wait until you have 3 quests, then do them all at the same time

Thats a good idea. 1 quest at a time feels much less rewarding.
I had 2 quests, and 2 is almost 3, and both could use druid wins (one was 5 and the other 3)
I completed them and bought a new deck, but it didn't do nearly as well as my mage deck did. The games were closer, i was relying more on top decking, and both of the losses i took i felt would have been avoided if i had been playing my mage deck.
But i played ranked this time and am rank 23 now, so ya know, im basically an expert.

pat1487 wrote:: Its really hard to progress past 15

Omgosh. with that kind of attitude of corse it is.
I never heard all this negativity when you were ballin' your way to diamond.

Moderator

Achilles.42 wrote:: I put in most of the control cards. Some aoe (flame strike, nova, 3 one damage strike thingy, etc.). Polymorph.
But no fireball. no secrets. i almost put in the defensive one that stops me from dying.
Then i put in all the cards that summon an extra minion, since those are OP.
plus mana worm and a couple cards like Chillwind yeti.
No charge, no taunt. (OH, i did have that 1 mana 0/2 taunt summon. i like that card if i get it early).

No fireball is weird to me, even my creature based mage deck uses fireball, usually used to finish them off after i get them to around 12-15 hp with all the creatures (2 fireballs and a frost bolt, sometimes ill use frost bolts during the game to kill creatures if i have to but i always try to hold the fireballs so i can kill at 12 hp)

Also most people have mass removal so those minions that summon more minions arent really that great, the silverhand knight is the only good one (the 4/4 and 2/2) since the 4/4 will survive all aoe but flamestrike and the 2/2 survives anything that deals 1 dmg, all the other minions that summon more minions only have 1 hp on the minion that it summoned which is really easy to get rid of even without aoe

Achilles.42 wrote:: I finally got those 2 OP divine shield minions. The 4/2 with charge/shield + the (i forget what defining feature it has besides divine shield)

The 3/3 with shield isnt OP its not even that good unless you're playing a divine shield paladin, and the 4/2 was OP before the patch when it had 3 hp, but now that it only has 2 its not, its still a good card though

Achilles.42 wrote:: I got some other cards that i really wanted too, like inner fire for priest, and the totem that lets you draw cards.

I get nothing but inner fire, just about every pack i open has at least 1 inner fire, its really annoying, i thought it was a super common card
The mana tide totem is good, it usually doesnt last more then 1 turn though as people kill it asap with anything they have, i once used the totem hp thing to get it up to 5hp against a rogue thinking the only thing he could do is sap it which wouldnt matter since i could just play it again and still get the benefit for another round, but the person used assassinate on it, which was fine cause the fire elemental i played on the next turn after that lived and ended up winning the game

Achilles.42 wrote:

pat1487 wrote:: It actually used to be 10 gold every 5 wins, they increased it to 10 every 3
They wont do it cause then people wont spend real money on packs since it would only be 10 wins for 1 pack, which is fairly easy to do

well. then they obviouslly need to sell more than just packs in their in game store.
drugs should be pretty lucrative.
Just increase the gold rewards and start selling drugs. everybody wins.

Selling different stuff in the shop could work, but i still dont think they will make the rewards any better, even if they did start selling drugs
Obviously we would all want 100 gold per win with no cap, but we have to be realistic

And i was wrong, it wasnt 5 wins for 10 gold, it was 5 wins for 5 gold, so its actually about 3 times more gold per win now then it used to be
Im not saying its a lot now, 1 gold per win sucked before, now its just mediocre, i think 15 gold every 3 wins would be the best balance, cause then its 21 wins per pack and 30 per arena (with a cap of 150 per day so that you could get enough for arena every day if you were dedicated to playing)
The odd amount means youll always have just under what you want until you get a few more wins which would make people either want to get the little bit more that they need, or spend real money and skip that process completely

Achilles.42 wrote:: I completed them and bought a new deck, but it didn't do nearly as well as my mage deck did. The games were closer, i was relying more on top decking, and both of the losses i took i felt would have been avoided if i had been playing my mage deck.
But i played ranked this time and am rank 23 now, so ya know, im basically an expert.

Ive never had success with a druid deck, i dont have that many druid cards, and the ones i do have kindve suck, the only druid deck i ever had wins with was the one i made to counter the people that used unleash the hounds, back when that was OP and you could kill on turn 8 in 1 turn, and that deck sucked vs anything other then that 1 specific hunter deck

Rank 25 to 20 is super easy, im not sure why they even have those ranks, i guess its intended for people that are completely new to card games, rank 20-15 is basically the same as silver to diamond was

Achilles.42 wrote:: Omgosh. with that kind of attitude of corse it is.
I never heard all this negativity when you were ballin' your way to diamond

Rank 15 is pretty much what diamond was, when i go against rank 14 people (which happens occasionally) they all have a bunch of legendaries and all the cards they need to make a perfect deck, like how masters players were, people in rank 15 sometimes have decks like that but its very similar to how it was back when i was stuck in diamond where i would get people that had decks like mine with half the cards they need for a perfect deck, and then if i do well against them, which i usually do, i start getting people that have all the cards they need to make the perfect deck

So im probably going to be stuck around 16-15 like i was stuck at diamond, maybe if i go on win streaks like how many warlock deck used to then i can get to 10, or maybe if i wait long enough those people with perfect decks will get even higher and people like me will be in the 14-10 range so that i can keep progressing

And when i say "perfect deck" i mean they didnt have to only put 1 of something in because they only have 1 of that thing (decks that have 2 argent commanders or 2 defenders of argus or 2 pyroblasts for example), or that they didnt have to make a compromise and substitute 1 card for another because they didnt have the card they wanted and the card that substitutes for the missing card sortve does the same thing but not as good

Moderator

Now that freeze was nerfed people stopped playing mages

The 3 decks people use now are
Hyper aggro warlock
Board control shaman
Control paladin

I dont see the paladin that much, i think it was made to deal with the shamans
The board control shaman was made to counter the hyper aggro warlock
The hyper aggro warlock was made because freeze was gone

The warlock deck is ridiculous ive lost to it with any deck other then my shaman deck, and even my shaman deck struggles (unless i pull lightning storm and have a spell totem and the warlock didnt buff all the health above 4, most warlocks just quit if you clear their entire board in 1 turn) the good thing about it is that they normally ignore totems, to get as much dmg through as possible, so having a spell power totem isnt that hard
Its like the old murloc deck that i talked about before, except they dont even bother too use removal, its just pure aggro, they can win on turn 4 if they get the right cards and theres nothing you can do about it, they can buff the hp of murlocs up to 5-7 with blood imps and murloc specific hp buffs
I think the only spells they have are soulfire and power overwhelming, they use soulfire on your hero as a finisher, blood mage thalnos buffs its dmg to 5 so 2 of them hit for 10 in 1 turn for the cost of 2 mana (people that dont have thalnos use the geomancer to accomplish the same thing)

The shaman board control deck is good in general, my shaman deck is kindve like it but i focused on overload and have unbound elementals in there instead of more stuff for board control
I can see why full board control is better then something like mine since i rarely get to use the unbound elementals in an efficient way and its usually a 3/5 at best, i also dont have earth elemntals so i couldnt make a full board control shaman even if i wanted to, i usually lose to shamans if they play earth elemental, sure i can hex it, but since it only costs 5 mana they can play it fairly early and i might not have hex at that point, ive actually been keep hex against shamans if its in my starting hand, normally i get rid of it cause theres nothing that needs hexing in the early game and id rather have a card i can play earlier, but at 5 mana they can coin into it on turn 4 and without hex im screwed

The pally deck uses big heals to stay alive, wild pyromancer and equality to wipe the board, consecrate and equality to wipe the enemy board, it doesnt use any buffs like normal pallys do, it counters board control decks pretty well since they can wipe the board several times, and it counters hyper agro warlocks too, again cause of the board wipe and the healing to sustain for longer
It might be the best deck with how everyone else is playing right now, but its really expensive to make, i dont have more then half of the cards you need to make something like that, im guessing thats why i dont see it as often as the other 2

My warrior deck doesnt work anymore, board control shamans counter it hard, and im dead to aggro warlocks before i can do anything, it does ok vs control pally, but i think im going to retire it
Funnily my first priest deck is doing pretty well again i havent played it enough to say its good again yet, but i think a board control priest deck would work really well in the current meta, i might change mine so that it has more board control (like getting rid of mind control and northshire clerics for example)

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I did an arena run as a priest, my first match was against another priest, everything was going well, we had a back and forth, it was a good game, then he played questing adventurer and enough cards to make it a 4/6 (with power word shield), i didnt have silence and my shadow word pain was useless so i had no immediate answer to this, so i had no choice but to let it live and played a northshire cleric and a taunt to cushion the blow
He played enough cards on his turn to get it to 8/10 (including the coin) he shadow word pained my taunt and used the adventurer to kill my cleric and passed the turn, so i played some crappy thing just hoping he would hit it instead of me, but of course he buffed his guy to 9/22 and hit me down to 19 hp and passed to me, so i buffed my crappy guy with a dwarf and played a light well and hit him down to 24 hp and passed to him
He played a novice engineer to make it a 10/23 and hit me so im down to 9 and dead next turn if i dont do something and passed to me
I top deck a spell breaker, silence his guy to a 2/2 and holy nova to wipe his board, so now i have a 4/1 a 4/4 and a light well on my side and am at 11 hp so i pass to him
He plays the 4/2 with divine and charge and rushes at my with it, so i play my own 4/2 with divine and charge and an inner fire on the light well so i can knock off his sheild and kill it without losing anything (i heal the lightwell so it can survive a holy nova)
He smites my 4/2 and passes to me
From that point on i just preceded to beat on him until he died, i went from 9 hp and about to lose to full hp at the end and won, i had 3 cards that could silence in my deck and 2 shadow word deaths, so top decking an answer to that 10/23 wasnt that unlikely but still iit came at the perfect time, i was about to hit concede and be demoralized that my first match ended like that

I ended up going 4-3 that arena run, i had 4 lightwells, 3 inner fires, and 5 divine spirits so i figured id either get really far with crazy turn 2 openings like 10/10 lightwell on turn 3 or a 5/5 on turn 2, or id lose immediately cause i didnt draw the combo and ended up with all 5 divine spirits at the same time (i put too many divine spirits in that deck)

---

EDIT:
My shaman deck is fun but i sometimes lose cause of the hero power randomness, like if i got the taunt i would survive and win, or if i got spell power i could clear and win, or if i got the 1/1 totem the turn before i could knock off divine shield with it and clear with a spell to survive and win, even if i already have 2 of the totems out i always get end up with the ones i dont need, its like the game hates me

I do like playing shaman though, i really like the overload mechanic, it lets you play powerful stuff very early, and lets you play a bunch of stuff in 1 turn later in the game (like you can potentially deal 8 dmg to all enemy minions in 1 turn for 6 mana that turn and 4 mana the next turn, you probably never need to deal 8 dmg to all minions, but its cool that you can)

And while the hero power can screw you i still like it, healing totem and spell power totem is amazingly useful, i try to keep those 2 up all the time, the taunt totem and the 1/1 totem and ones that i use as expandable cannon fodder, i can play the totem that buffs the attack of adjacent minions by 2 then suicide those 2 totems in for 5 dmg to a minion, people will ignore totems a lot of the time too, the only 1 people kill regularly is the spell power 1 and sometimes they will go after the healing 1 if they dont have enough dmg to 1 shot your stuff, but they generally avoid the 1/1 completely so thats a guaranteed 3 dmg with that to something using that combo

The best is when you have all 4 totems up and they only have 1 attacking minion, cause you can just keep resummoning the 0/2 taunt and delay the game or skip attacking his 1 minion and just beat on him while he pointlessly kills your totem every turn, ive actually had people burn spells on totems just to get through when they were in that position

Moderator

Theres a patch coming out for hearthstone again, and with it comes more nerfs

Quote :: Unleash the Hounds’ mana cost is now 2 (down from 4)

Unleash the Hounds was intended to give Hunters their own form of AoE and to have synergy with other beast cards, but its old cost was too prohibitive.

After the initial unleash nerf i stopped playing hunter completely, mainly because starving buzzard was turned into a 2/1 but hunter actually wasnt as bad as i thought after the nerfs, unleash the hounds turned into a card draw card (with the buzzard) and 1 dmg to all enemy minions like but you had the ability to pick how to distribute that dmg, and with timber wolf its like consecrate

Now at 2 mana its much better since you can also play 2 timber wolves for 4 mana and deal 3 dmg to everything, or ignore everything and go for the kill if they are low enough and have no taunt
So i might play hunter again, i still dont like that the buzzard is 1 hp though

Quote :: Pyroblast’s mana cost is now 10 (up from 8 )

The 8-cost Pyroblast made for an un-interactive experience where the Mage only needed to do 10 damage during the course of a game and then double Pyroblast you for the win. We want Mages to be more interactive with the opponent to achieve victory, rather than delay the game until they can Pyroblast.

After mind control was nerfed to 10 i thought pyro should also be nerfed to 10 so im glad to see this change
I rather they changed the amount of dmg it did to 8 for 8 mana, but this is good enough i guess

Quote :: Blood Imp is now a 0/1 and now reads: Stealth. At the end of your turn, give another random friendly minion +1 Health.

The Warlock has three very strong 1-cost minions and that made the Warlock rush deck slightly stronger than we were comfortable with.

Blood imp was an insanely strong card so it definitely needed a nerf but i think this went too far, all they had to do was take away its stealth and it wouldve been fine, or raise its cost to 3 made it a 2/2 and take away its stealth so it was like a raid leader but buffed hp instead of attack, but now its just an untargetable priestess with no attack, they couldve at least let it keep its 1 attack after the ability nerf
But w/e as long as murlock warlock is weaker its fine (they didnt change any of the murloc cards so its not really that much weaker, but still)

Quote :: Warsong Commander has been reworked and now reads: Whenever you play a minion with 3 or less Attack, give it Charge.

Charge (the spell, not the keyword) has been reworked and now costs 3 mana. The card’s new power reads: “Give a friendly minion +2 Attack and Charge”.

Both of these cards were key components in “One Turn Kill” or “OTK” decks that kill your opponent in one turn without requiring any cards on the board. We want the game to be about playing minions and fighting for board control rather than just waiting until you can play your big combo and win in one turn with no interaction from your opponent.

I hate this change, but they had to do something to stop the one turn kill decks that could deal 30-50 dmg in 1 turn, they shouldve made it for minions with 4 or less attack instead of 3 though

Quote :: Dark Iron Dwarf’s buff now only lasts until the end of the turn.

This change was made to reduce the Dark Iron Dwarf’s overall power slightly. We also wanted to make the Battlecry effect the same as Abusive Sergeant‘s as to not force you to permanently buff one of your opponent’s creatures.

This is probably the worst change of this update, i use this card in my shaman deck to turn totems into 2/2s or to turn a silenced flametounge totem into a 2/3 to make it useful again, but now its terrible since it only lasts for 1 turn, it wouldve been better if it gave +2 to a minion while it was alive or if they made it a 3/3 and had the +2 last forever like it has been

And the point of having to buff a minion when you played it was supposed to be its downside and the reason it was so strong, its like they dont understand the card that they made when they say "as to not force you to permanently buff one of your opponent's creatures", why would they make it that powerful in the first place when they dont want you to have to do things like that, it doesnt make sense

Although, Ive been having trouble deciding what card i should remove from my shaman deck to make room for a bloodlust, and this change just made that decision very easy

Quote :: Abusive Sergeant now reads: Battlecry: Give a minion +2 Attack until end of turn.

Abusive Sergeant was changed to make its power the same as the Dark Iron Dwarf and to give it additional versatility.

I dont see why they made this change, all they did was change it from a friendly minion to any minion, but when you play it and end your turn the minion you buffed loses its buff, so if you play it by itself for w/e reason it doesnt change the way it used to work at all, so there was no point in changing it

The only versatility is for priest, you can buff an enemy's 4 attack minion and then use shadow word death on it, but i dont see a priest deck that would want to use abusive sergeant since it only has 1 hp, i guess you could combo it with priestess but even then i dont see it being any good

Quote :: Defender of Argus is now a 2/3 (down from 3/3)

Defender of Argus was a card that found itself automatically included in many decks due to its power and stats. We want players to have an option of what cards they put in their decks, so cards that feel like they must be in all decks (especially Neutral ones) are not ideal.

I figured they would to this after the shatter sun cleric nerf in the other patch, im glad they changed the attack instead of the hp so i cant really complain, if they had made it a 3/2 id be complaining a lot, i think it costs too much mana now, but its fine, ill still use it in pretty much every deck

Quote :: Novice Engineer is now a 1/1 (down from 1/2)

The Novice Engineer was played in most non-rush decks (and even some rush decks) due to its cost and power. Similar in reasoning to our Defender of Argus change, we want players to have an option of what cards they put in their decks.

I hate this change too, the engineer is useless now, i use it in a lot of decks for some cheap card draw and to put something on the board that i can buff or that will absorb a bit of damage, im going to switch to using acolyte of pain or loot hoarder instead of engineer, loot hoarder will at least kill a 3/2 and the acolyte can potentially gain more than 1 card, although they can both be silenced which sucks, the main problem is that acolyte costs a bit too much to play early, and isnt as efficient when it dies to a 3/2 (the engineer wasnt efficient either, but at least it only cost 2 mana)

Im thinking about making a deck that uses a lot of minions that can be silenced, because no one will have enough silence to deal with it all especially if they waste silence on acolytes or loot hoarders

Quote :: Sylvanas Windrunner’s mana cost is now 6 (up from 5)

Sylvanas had power and stats that made it a bit too powerful compared to other 5-cost cards, which made it automatically included in many decks. We want players to have an option of what cards they put in their decks, so cards that feel like they must be in all decks (especially Neutral ones) are not ideal.

This change is completely pointless, lowering the stats wouldve made sense, making it a 3/5 wouldve been a good change, or changing its effect to only work on low attack minions wouldve worked too, but making it cost 6 mana changes nothing, its still insanely powerful and everyone that has it will continue to use it in every deck

They say they want to give options but they arent really, they are just making certain options less appealing, not really the same thing
Sometimes it doesnt matter, other times it makes the card almost useless, if anything they are making less options with some of these changes (novice engineer isnt an option anymore)

Captain

They nerfed my pyroblast those bastards! I won't be able to make slayer cry nymore.

Hated blood imp, such a retarded card, glad its nerfed

Engineer is now totally useless. Its like a useless card that makes you draw a card.

P.S GIMME SOME LEGENDARIES

Commander

I dont like the blood imp change. I agree with what you were saying about how they should have balanced it. but it was too strong so it makes sense. maybe they'll back off of this one like they did with unleash the hounds, but probably not.

Im surprised tehy reduced the nerf on unleash the hounds, cus that card is still a solid card, even with 4 mana. It'll be much easier to combo in the early game now, which is nice.
Pyroblast makes a lot of sense. that was a good change. Sept anythin that makes slayer cry is a good thing. so idk. <3

Spoiler:

Moderator

The novice engineer is such an important card sometimes, just the ability to draw a card right away is helpful at times, where as the alternatives to the engineer dont let you draw right away
I really hate that they made it a 1/1, id rather it be 0/2 honestly

And the blood imp is somewhat more annoying now than it was, before i was prepared for it with aoe, but now if they put 2 out, they can potentially buff each other out of aoe range before you can play your aoe, so its possible that they stay around the entire game since theres no way to remove stealth unless you play hunter

Also getting packs is pointless after a while, now that i have almost all the common cards and most of the rares every pack i get just becomes dust, with maybe 1 usable card
So im only going to use gold for arena from now on

Commander

I played a set of games with my ultimate-card-draw warlock.
i got to rank 19 on a single win streak (technically 2 win streaks cus i lost one game)
But in the game i lost i had the damage to kill him, i just played something on a whim by mistake and it threw off my mana, so it went another turn where he killed me.

I actually really like the change to blood imps. They're much better in unison with eachother now, and they help with more conservative play: keeping single minions alive to trade well for several turns. As apposed to helping go all in. I drew both with the coin in one game, and they gave each other enough hp that 1 of them survived over half the game.
I also played several beatdown decks. one of them was a palidon that had all the murloc cards+every charge card ever. even the legendary that gets buffed from all the murlocs in play.
but my deck is too good for any of them.

I dont like the change to engineer. i dont know why they would nerf a basic card. there should be basic cards that are 'too good' so that people just starting out will be able to discover and use them. i dont feel like one wants all the cards that everyone likes using to force you to play and earn gold.

I didn't play my hunter deck, and i didn't play any hunters that used unleash the hounds. so im not sure if 4 to 2 mana makes the card ridiculous. so we'll see.

Whats your current rank pat? i forgot to check.
are you super L33T level19 status like me?

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