Attack on Titan

With out spoiling anything, id like to say that you somehow got one of your theories spot on... i won't say which though. Also this part of the story is freaken amazing. Also why do you think reiner is a titan?

I said in my other post, he is crushed by the female titan, the way the blood spurted out was definitely from his body and not from a cut on the titan, he heals without going into titan form, very quckly, and gets out of her hand
The speed that he heals at (and the fact that he doesnt go full titan when it happens) is why i couldnt tell if he knows about it or not, but im assuming his memory is like Eren's where he doesnt remember that moment where he was crushed, even though he didnt change fully
He did say something after escaping from her hand that made me think he knows, but it seems unlikely that he does with the way he was acting before that

I laughed when annie fell on the people in the wall church at the start since they were saying the walls will protect us and all that, it was just humorous to me, then they showed the after math of them being crushed and it made me feel like a jerk for laughing

I like how they fought in a populated area and show the collateral damage, most of the time in anime big fights like this happen in abandoned/evacuated/virtual cities or mountainous desert wastelands with no civilians around for miles

Also i think the titans are man made, they were made like exo-suits to be used like tools for construction, excavation, logging, and other jobs that require large machinery, then they made some that were autonomous to do the work for them, but something went wrong with those (or some faction sabotaged them) and they started to rampage, killing humans, so mankind used their titans to construct the walls to protect them from the autonomous titans
Then as time went on normal humans out numbered the humans that could become titans and those people became so afraid of titans that they forbid the use of titans by everyone (im assuming that the ability to make people capable of transforming into a titan was made much more difficult once they were trapped inside the walls, so the only people that could do it were those that could do it from before the walls were made, and maybe their children)
Then as more time passed people forgot where the walls came from and that titans used to be man made tools since i doubt records were kept that well during all that chaos, and even if they were kept they may have been destroyed out of fear since if mankind knew that the titans were man made tools they might never stop trying to use them

That would also explain the titan we see in the last scene of the episode, the wall builders built titan back ups into the walls in case of emergencies, or maybe they just didnt have enough materials and used titan bodies as filler to reinforce the parts of the walls that they couldnt build properly

i've got one candidate i think is very likely and another candidate that im less sure on. the first candidate i first noticed when mikasa found out erren died and then went on her mad charge to refill the canisters. the important bit was when she was giving her pep talk. she called everyone cowards and lil bitches (paraphrasing). afterwards they showed the reactions of the people present. there was one dude who really stood out to me. first off his reaction: he was literally offended. but more than that, he actually seemed insulted and angry that she would talk down to him. second off: he was (and continued to first the entire arc) standing by Annie. annie didn't have any friends and was incredibly anti social (which was well explained later on). at first i thought they were just in the same assigned squad so it was natural, but then that stopped being a good enough explanation as he continually stayed with her. there's really only 2 explanations for this fact alone: either he was put next to her absentmindedly to be easier to animate, or he is one of her less public comrades. annie didn't have friends, why does she have one now.
this theory took a blow when, as they're all traveling, he appears to be incredibly discomforted by seeing his comrades eaten. it didn't seem like acting to me and it obviously isn't how i'd imagine a human-titan would react, especially not if he was the one i thought he was.
further, when people are discussing the unique variant titan (later known to be erren) that is saving them, he has a weird reaction. he doesn't respond like how a normal person would respond. but since this could just be shock, this is a lot less strong to the first piece of evidence.
anyways, the titan i suspect him to be:

the human i suspect him to be

he's called reiner

The last line in bold there is referring to what you were talking about with the way he was reacting to stuff, his reactions only make sense if he doesnt know that hes a titan since, like you said, it didnt seem like he was acting
I didnt notice that similarity though, i had forgotten what the armored titan looked like by ep 17, but its definitely reiner
I hope that pic is from before episode 17, before i had a reason to notice the similarity, if the armored titan shows up after ep 17 and i didnt notice it then i am blind
This means my theory about him not knowing must be wrong, so now i have no idea why he was reacting like that

Im trying to think of why he would be upset at people dieing and yet still attack the city intentionally
Heres a list of possibilities i can come up with:

1. He and other human titans are trying to stop the non-human titans by bringing something very large to the center of the city, thats why he seems to care about people and is just doing what needs to be done even if it means a few people have to die in the process, this large object is too big for the gates and is slow so you cant just bring it in normally and there isnt enough human titans to fight the non human titans while its being brought in, so they are trying to smash through as quickly as possible (currently they are waiting to bring it in until they are prepared to smash the final wall, and when they smash the final wall they will bring it through as fast as it can go), i dont know what this large thing is or what it does, but it could be related to the titans in the walls
The details dont really matter for this theory, the point is that he and the other human titans are trying to help mankind in some round about way by doing what their doing for some reasons that make it so this is the only viable way to do it and theyve come too far to try a new way now that eren has come out as a titan (if they changed their plan after eren came out and was accepted as a titan, all the people that died due to their plan prior to that will have been for nothing so they decided to just go forward with their plan regardless of the fact that their probably is a better way to do it now)

2. He doesnt remember being a titan after he becomes human again, but when hes a titan hes working for the titans and remembers everything from when he was a human, as a titan hes a different person entirely, like a split personality of sorts, this allows my original theory to be true, like a sleeper agent for the titans

3. Hes an unfeeling bastard that has learned to imitate human emotion really well


I like my first theory the most

the pic was from before episode 17 lol. he only ever appears that first time. i think he would have appeared again the first night after the titans broke through frost had erren not sealed it off. i have some theories on why they only attack the gates that aren't as bs as "it's the weakest point"

that episode confirmed rainer's titan-ness for me too but for different reasons. i didnt actually think too much on the blood splatter and then him being okay. the show is just too ridiculous when it comes to some things like that for me to really even start analyzing them. i figured it could have been something as ridiculous as him cutting into her hand with both swords making a kangaroo pouch when she squeezed. not possible but not something that would have been totally unheard of for the show.
what did it for me was what added up and what didnt.
first off: why did the female titan attack on the right flank? after her initial sighting, reiner, jean and armin compare info. reiner is the only one of them who thought that arren was to be stationed on the right flank -- they each were told he was in a different place. but, after first seeing the female, the three of them deduce that his real location is mid bottom. after this the scene happens that you talked about -- him getting crushed -- but there were a few more smaller details to it. there was a long pause before she crushed him and he was the only one of her former trainee group-mates that she actually was willing to kill, yet he was also the one that spent the most time with her. the first is suspicious and the second doesn't add up. after killing him, she bolts towards the middle.
suspicious -> incriminating
more evidence pops up but at this point its not even worth adding to the very long list

as far as the giant titan. i have three suspects, two boring one interesting. boring first
it's a normal titan that has been enhanced and given refined purpose by the human-titans. i have the vague suspicion that this is the story behind all variants. they are titans that have been given alternative orders by a human-titan. but this doesn't line up with the whole "it's intelligent thing" from the beginning of frost. this is the least likely theory, but still a possibility depending on where the story goes with human-titans abilities to control titans
the second option is the dude who's also constantly hanging around annie and reiner in the frost arc. id be really disappointed if this was the case because it's kinda a cheat. i don't like when the secret identity of someone is revealed and there weren't really any clues. the only information incriminating this guy (i actually don't even know his name, i just googled "annie reiner and " too find the pic) is his relationship to the other two.

he's not even part of the title for pic lol. It's "shingeki-10-4-annie-reiner-jean.jpg"
he vaguely resembles the giant titan but not really... but i wasn't expecting a human look alike. i feel like at that completely unrelatable (to human) height it would be acceptable to also loose most other distinguishing characteristics.

my interesting candidate is none other than the commander of the scouts, erwin.
his station provides him the mobility and access to be at the scenes of wherever without it being suspicious. his intelligence and quick thinking make it believable that he would be able to pull this off without being suspected
on the other hand, just because he might be able to do it doesnt mean he would, and i dont think he would. his character so far does not seem to have any of the motivation or desire for it. but the show could pull an aizen and have a huge twist out of nowhere and call it "plot."

I was going to make a joke about how the titans are members of the wall church and that the colossal titan was struck down by the wall god after his blasphemy so they had no means of attacking the walls anymore, but as i was trying to come up with a silly name for the wall god it made me think of something else

What if the wall church knows about the titans in the walls, and thats why they dont want people messing with the walls, i didnt give the wall church much thought before because religion be crazy but if they arent crazy it fits in with the last theory in my post about the last episode, about the titans being man made exo-suits and that people forgot over time, they would be the few that pass that kind of information down through the generations

Serenity09 wrote:

that episode confirmed rainer's titan-ness for me too but for different reasons. i didnt actually think too much on the blood splatter and then him being okay. the show is just too ridiculous when it comes to some things like that for me to really even start analyzing them. i figured it could have been something as ridiculous as him cutting into her hand with both swords making a kangaroo pouch when she squeezed. not possible but not something that would have been totally unheard of for the show.

ROFL kangaroo pouch

If you watch that scene again youll see he was clearly crushed, hes even steaming afterwards, which isnt from annies blood, im surprised it didnt occur to armin that he might be a titan after seeing that, but i can beleive he didnt noticing it considering his state of being at the time

Serenity09 wrote:

what did it for me was what added up and what didnt.
first off: why did the female titan attack on the right flank? after her initial sighting, reiner, jean and armin compare info. reiner is the only one of them who thought that arren was to be stationed on the right flank -- they each were told he was in a different place. but, after first seeing the female, the three of them deduce that his real location is mid bottom.

I was suspicious of him before seeing him be crushed, its just that seeing him be crushed convinced me of it (well 90% sure at least) so thats what i focused on, its not like i saw that and immediately jumped to "reiner is a titan" and its been too long for me to remember details like that

Also erwin should know that someone from reiners squad is a traitor, since like you said they all had diff info and erwin would know who knew what

Serenity09 wrote:

after this the scene happens that you talked about -- him getting crushed -- but there were a few more smaller details to it. there was a long pause before she crushed him and he was the only one of her former trainee group-mates that she actually was willing to kill, yet he was also the one that spent the most time with her. the first is suspicious and the second doesn't add up. after killing him, she bolts towards the middle.
suspicious -> incriminating
more evidence pops up but at this point its not even worth adding to the very long list

I didnt pick up on that, it makes sense though that he told her erens position before being crushed and why he bothered to "attack" her like that so that he had a chance to tell her something without being noticed
The fact that he was crushed was enough for me so i stopped looking into it past that

Serenity09 wrote:

it's a normal titan that has been enhanced and given refined purpose by the human-titans. i have the vague suspicion that this is the story behind all variants. they are titans that have been given alternative orders by a human-titan. but this doesn't line up with the whole "it's intelligent thing" from the beginning of frost. this is the least likely theory, but still a possibility depending on where the story goes with human-titans abilities to control titans

No, the abnormal titans are def all humans, including the colossal titan, what your saying would suck in comparison to what the show already established and i dont think it would do that

Serenity09 wrote:

the second option is the dude who's also constantly hanging around annie and reiner in the frost arc. id be really disappointed if this was the case because it's kinda a cheat. i don't like when the secret identity of someone is revealed and there weren't really any clues. the only information incriminating this guy (i actually don't even know his name, i just googled "annie reiner and " too find the pic) is his relationship to the other two.

he's not even part of the title for pic lol. It's "shingeki-10-4-annie-reiner-jean.jpg"
he vaguely resembles the giant titan but not really... but i wasn't expecting a human look alike. i feel like at that completely unrelatable (to human) height it would be acceptable to also loose most other distinguishing characteristics.

Im glad you included a pic cause i would have no idea who you were talking about otherwise, i dont know that guys name either, but i do remember him, vaguely
I dont think he resembles the colossal titan, his face doesnt and the other titan-humans all have the same kind of hair when they go into titan form and he doesnt, although he didnt have skin either so i guess thats not the best way to judge, i guess his head shape kindve does, but you cant base it on that alone
This actually seems likely to me though, since that character hasnt really done anything yet has been there the whole time, im trying to think of other characters that are similar and they are all dead so he must be important in some way and this would fit, especially since he hangs around them
But we are using metaknowledge rather then in show evidence so you shouldnt be disappointed if thats how it turns out, its your own fault for using metaknowledge like that
Plus, if it is true, its highly likely there will be evidence brought up next season to hint at it properly so something like that doesnt just come out of no where

I would be disappointed though, only because that character is so forgettable, to the point where neither of us know his name, i dont even remember a single scene where he spoke


Also this is why i dont rewatch shows until after the story is over since ill start using metaknowlege when looking at old stuff cause without rewatching (or in this case you reminding me) i never wouldve considered that background guy to be the colossal titan as i completely forgot about him, but now ill be watching his every move next season

Serenity09 wrote:

my interesting candidate is none other than the commander of the scouts, erwin.
his station provides him the mobility and access to be at the scenes of wherever without it being suspicious. his intelligence and quick thinking make it believable that he would be able to pull this off without being suspected
on the other hand, just because he might be able to do it doesnt mean he would, and i dont think he would. his character so far does not seem to have any of the motivation or desire for it. but the show could pull an aizen and have a huge twist out of nowhere and call it "plot."

Lol, im pretty positive its not him, that would just be silly
Also this contradicts what you said about reiner, if it was erwin then annie wouldve know where eren was right away with no need to attack the right
I dont even know why you would propose this theory

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No, the abnormal titans are def all humans, including the colossal titan, what your saying would suck in comparison to what the show already established and i dont think it would do that

lol i already said that the first two were boring. it would definitely be a let down, but i don't think it breaks anything that's been established. i do still think abnormals are titans which have been given special orders. i originally thought it had to do with the human inside of them, but i can't think of any possible human traits that would result in any of the abnormals behavior

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Im glad you included a pic cause i would have no idea who you were talking about otherwise, i dont know that guys name either, but i do remember him, vaguely
I dont think he resembles the colossal titan, his face doesnt and the other titan-humans all have the same kind of hair when they go into titan form and he doesnt, although he didnt have skin either so i guess thats not the best way to judge, i guess his head shape kindve does, but you cant base it on that alone
This actually seems likely to me though, since that character hasnt really done anything yet has been there the whole time, im trying to think of other characters that are similar and they are all dead so he must be important in some way and this would fit, especially since he hangs around them
But we are using metaknowledge rather then in show evidence so you shouldnt be disappointed if thats how it turns out, its your own fault for using metaknowledge like that
Plus, if it is true, its highly likely there will be evidence brought up next season to hint at it properly so something like that doesnt just come out of no where

i didnt think of that, he definitely is one of the characters that would probably have already died. not like 100% so his alive-ness isn't really suspicious, but it is a lil out of the norm. im going to shoot someone if next season they discover he has a wig and is really bald. i think his face is similar. going off of looks alone: i think pixis resembles the big guy quite a bit, but that just doesn't check out with the time-lines of things. if he turns out to be someone from a powerful station i think erwin is most likely.

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I would be disappointed though, only because that character is so forgettable, to the point where neither of us know his name, i dont even remember a single scene where he spoke

this is more what I meant. that he's just a complete rando face in the crowd, it would feel like a cheat for him to in reality be such an integral character. like if the giant turned out to be a random civilian that has never before been introduced to us. it's not that its unrealistic or impossible at all, it just wouldn't make for a good, well-woven story

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Also this is why i dont rewatch shows until after the story is over since ill start using metaknowlege when looking at old stuff cause without rewatching (or in this case you reminding me) i never wouldve considered that background guy to be the colossal titan as i completely forgot about him, but now ill be watching his every move next season

oh damn you're totally right and now i will be too. whoops. at least i think there are a few candidates. despite what you might say, hater, erwin is one of them.

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Lol, im pretty positive its not him, that would just be silly
Also this contradicts what you said about reiner, if it was erwin then annie wouldve know where eren was right away with no need to attack the right
I dont even know why you would propose this theory

yeah this kinda needed the second part of my post (that i never got around to writing last night) to really make any kinda sense

we don't really know the relationship between the titans. for this im gonna assume that reiner is a titan. even then, annie and reiner the only two titans that are known to interact as humans. we have no idea if the big guy is working with or against them. even the initial arc, where the armored titan breaks in after the big guy does his stuff doesn't really say anything for sure. the armored titan might have just been taking advantage of the situation, definitely doesn't seem that way but still possible.
somewhat separately, it is very possible that the relationship between the parties may have changed. what if reiner and annie had a change of heart and now wanted to achieve their goal, whatever it is, but with less bloodshed (after seeing all dat horror). or if, now that the majority of the goal has been achieved, the big guy was making a power play to eliminate the only others who know what's up -- this would leave the remaining titan with a huge power advantage in a time where it's desparately needed. declaring himself king would be the easiest thing in the world. to accomplish getting to that point he would want to draw all the players into a field he controls and has an advantage in. it's this last scenario where i think erwin could be the enemy. he basically owns erren; he can use them to fight the human-titans 1-1 (plus support for erren) without revealing himself and can also kill erren at any time (as easily as in his sleep).

about origins:
i'm not sure if annie's from around here. in all of her flashbacks, you see her father(?) crying telling her to stay alive, that he will always love her, and, finally, begs her to promise to return home. whenever annie is backed into a corner, i got the feeling that her source of will was staying alive (which in turn is backed by the promise) rather than personal investment in her course of action. she doesn't seem to have any other real motivation. if that's the case then why she doesn't just pack up and peace out back home isn't really clear. sure she probably left / was sent away to carry out some goal, but the flashbacks make "returning home" / "living" an objective that is at least tied with whatever goal she might have. for her to not just head home when things start going bad (back when she still had the chance) makes me think that it wasn't really possible. this makes me wonder whether or not her "home" was destroyed and the sentiment is metaphorical (ie come home in death) or if her home is just too far to just return to on a whim. i would think her home being destroyed (and the promise being metaphorical) was much more likely except for how hard she fights to stay alive. i can't imagine she would have known the outcome of her crystal coffin, and whether or not it would preserve her life indefinitely. this would prevent her from ever returning to her metaphorical home.
on the flipside, she seems sincerely sad for what happens due to her actions. i dont think a foreigner would be quite as sad without any ties to the land... still life is life and she did know the others as comrades so this doesn't really provide any insight.
i have no idea if reiner is from inside the walls or not, regardless of annie's origin. i think he might be from within but i don't really have anything to say why. on the other hand, he seems to have even less emotional attachment to the kingdom than annie does, but with the amount of shit that's happened to everyone this could be because of many things.

objectives:
if annie is from inside the walls: i like pat's first theory

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1. He and other human titans are trying to stop the non-human titans by bringing something very large to the center of the city, thats why he seems to care about people and is just doing what needs to be done even if it means a few people have to die in the process, this large object is too big for the gates and is slow so you cant just bring it in normally and there isnt enough human titans to fight the non human titans while its being brought in, so they are trying to smash through as quickly as possible (currently they are waiting to bring it in until they are prepared to smash the final wall, and when they smash the final wall they will bring it through as fast as it can go), i dont know what this large thing is or what it does, but it could be related to the titans in the walls
The details dont really matter for this theory, the point is that he and the other human titans are trying to help mankind in some round about way by doing what their doing for some reasons that make it so this is the only viable way to do it and theyve come too far to try a new way now that eren has come out as a titan (if they changed their plan after eren came out and was accepted as a titan, all the people that died due to their plan prior to that will have been for nothing so they decided to just go forward with their plan regardless of the fact that their probably is a better way to do it now)

if annie is from inside the walls: they're making a power play to change things (either benevolently or malevolently)
if annie is from inside the walls: she is an instrument of a religious crusade to purge the kingdom of the lesser inhabitants (anyone from outside the innermost wall). more info below
if annie isn't from around here: annie's home is massive and is slowly being eaten away at by the titans. despite having a few human-titans (not everyone can become a human-titan in this theory) to protect themselves, it's not enough to live safely. because of their population they need a new home large enough to support them. having found the walled city, they decided to infiltrate it using annie (and potentially reiner and the big guy) and purge the previous residents out. after doing so, annie will use her ability to order other titans to call them out of the city and then her home kingdom will move in
if annie isn't from around here: annie's home is ruled by dicks and they view the other walled cities as threats (who might eventually do to them what they are currently doing)
if annie isn't from around here: erren's dad was also originally from wherever-annie's-from and stole something important before fleeing. annie came to retrieve it. this would explain why reiner and annie took the huge risk to kidnap erren after hearing (from erwin's general announcement) that some top secret weapon to combat titans (what erwin said / made up) was located in erren's basement.
if annie isn't from around here: a combination of the erren's dad theory and the new place to live theory. they originally came to kill everyone and take the walls for their own people but after discovering the possibility of an anti titan weapon (and because they'd much rather not kill everyone) they're taking a risk of kidnapping erren to find the weapon. their people are saved and the current occupants won't be killed. i like this theory the most because i think it's the best explanation for why annie was crying after failing to kidnap erren. she killed so many of her comrades in order to, ultimately, protect their (both hers and theirs) people. with erren's "weapon" they would be able to accomplish the best-resolution-for-everyone, but because of her failure to capture erren she ended up killing many of her comrades without being able to save everyone... she caused death by trying to do good. it's a long shot but i like it.

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I was going to make a joke about how the titans are members of the wall church and that the colossal titan was struck down by the wall god after his blasphemy so they had no means of attacking the walls anymore, but as i was trying to come up with a silly name for the wall god it made me think of something else

What if the wall church knows about the titans in the walls, and thats why they dont want people messing with the walls, i didnt give the wall church much thought before because religion be crazy but if they arent crazy it fits in with the last theory in my post about the last episode, about the titans being man made exo-suits and that people forgot over time, they would be the few that pass that kind of information down through the generations

lmao. they have established that there were some pretty powerful members. #foreshadowing
i could actually see it though. i think if annie (and/or co.) are from within the walls, they are my #1 suspects for the masterminds. that actually does kinda strike me as being very possible. annie has that kinda zealous mindless feel and the church priests definitelyyyy have the zealous self-righteous feel.

Serenity09 wrote:

lol i already said that the first two were boring. it would definitely be a let down, but i don't think it breaks anything that's been established. i do still think abnormals are titans which have been given special orders. i originally thought it had to do with the human inside of them, but i can't think of any possible human traits that would result in any of the abnormals behavior

I dont know, special orders doesnt seem likely to me as they dont really accomplish anything, most of them arent even focused on 1 specific thing like you would expect from something following an order
I figured they might be like new recruits, still learning how to control themselves as titans, if you bring up a specific abnormal that doesnt fit that i could probably come up with a plausible explanation that ties into some human desire

Serenity09 wrote:

im going to shoot someone if next season they discover he has a wig and is really bald. i think his face is similar. going off of looks alone: i think pixis resembles the big guy quite a bit, but that just doesn't check out with the time-lines of things. if he turns out to be someone from a powerful station i think erwin is most likely.

Pixis resembles him more then background guy does, but i dont think its him
Im pretty sure they intentionally didnt give him skin so that you couldnt use looks to figure it out as it will be some huge reveal to his identity at some point

Thats another reason i think your first theory is wrong since they cant have that huge reveal with something like that, though that would also mean it cant be background guy since that wouldnt be a huge reveal either but its possible background guy will play a key part in season 2 so a huge reveal is still possible with him
Erwin would fit that, but ill talk about him below

Serenity09 wrote:

we don't really know the relationship between the titans. for this im gonna assume that reiner is a titan. even then, annie and reiner the only two titans that are known to interact as humans. we have no idea if the big guy is working with or against them. even the initial arc, where the armored titan breaks in after the big guy does his stuff doesn't really say anything for sure. the armored titan might have just been taking advantage of the situation, definitely doesn't seem that way but still possible.

It seemed more like they were working together to me, if they werent working together youd think colossal titan would see armored titan and would attack him since he would have no problem killing him

Serenity09 wrote:

somewhat separately, it is very possible that the relationship between the parties may have changed. what if reiner and annie had a change of heart and now wanted to achieve their goal, whatever it is, but with less bloodshed (after seeing all dat horror). or if, now that the majority of the goal has been achieved, the big guy was making a power play to eliminate the only others who know what's up -- this would leave the remaining titan with a huge power advantage in a time where it's desparately needed. declaring himself king would be the easiest thing in the world. to accomplish getting to that point he would want to draw all the players into a field he controls and has an advantage in. it's this last scenario where i think erwin could be the enemy. he basically owns erren; he can use them to fight the human-titans 1-1 (plus support for erren) without revealing himself and can also kill erren at any time (as easily as in his sleep).

Annie was still killing people though when she was attacking so i dont think she had a change of heart, sure she didnt kill people she knew, but thats not a change of heart, a change of heart would be to not kill anyone since she couldve easily covered her neck and not attacked the whole time, none of them posed a threat to her yet she still killed, so she should still be working with the colossal titan (since she was working with reiner who we are assuming is armored titan and is working with colossal for the reason i said above)
Even if she did have a change of heart, it would be beneficial to pretend like she didnt so she can minimize the death, which is why shes still killing (if she didnt kill at all colossal would know something is up) but not killing those she knows, but in that case she would still be working with colossal

So either way, if colossal is erwin she would know erens true position without having to get it from reiner first


But the biggest reason i dont think colossal is erwin is beacuse that first attack didnt seem like erwins style, it was too brute force
Erwin has more finesse then that, if it was his plan there would be less collateral damage or more subtle then kicking in a wall
Unless the plan was to do damage, in which case they wouldve already destroyed everything and won by now with erwin in charge (eren would definitely be dead as the only reason erwin would let him live is to recruit him but he would have no use for an uncontrollable newb who has a solid conviction that all titans must die, it would be silly to try to recruit him)

Nothing about it fits erwins character/personality

Serenity09 wrote:

about origins:
i'm not sure if annie's from around here. in all of her flashbacks, you see her father(?) crying telling her to stay alive, that he will always love her, and, finally, begs her to promise to return home. whenever annie is backed into a corner, i got the feeling that her source of will was staying alive (which in turn is backed by the promise) rather than personal investment in her course of action. she doesn't seem to have any other real motivation. if that's the case then why she doesn't just pack up and peace out back home isn't really clear. sure she probably left / was sent away to carry out some goal, but the flashbacks make "returning home" / "living" an objective that is at least tied with whatever goal she might have. for her to not just head home when things start going bad (back when she still had the chance) makes me think that it wasn't really possible. this makes me wonder whether or not her "home" was destroyed and the sentiment is metaphorical (ie come home in death) or if her home is just too far to just return to on a whim. i would think her home being destroyed (and the promise being metaphorical) was much more likely except for how hard she fights to stay alive. i can't imagine she would have known the outcome of her crystal coffin, and whether or not it would preserve her life indefinitely. this would prevent her from ever returning to her metaphorical home.
on the flipside, she seems sincerely sad for what happens due to her actions. i dont think a foreigner would be quite as sad without any ties to the land... still life is life and she did know the others as comrades so this doesn't really provide any insight.

There might be more then 1 city, its possible that there is, but i dont think its relevant
I only remember the flashbacks from the last ep, and i figured she told her dad she was a titan at some earlier point (and possibly what she was going to do) and he disowned her only to later realize she was right and told her hes on her side
I dont remember him begging her to come home, but it does fits with what i was thinking
I dont think shes from outside the walls though, she doesnt have to be far from home in order for her dad to want her to come home, i would think it would be more like "come home safely" rather then a literal come back home, metaphorical doesnt seem likely either

And when shes backed into a corner, her father (or whoever that father figure guy is) is her reason to not die, so she can see him again, but i dont think its her overall motivation for doing the things shes doing, its just the only thing preventing her from giving up
The crystal coffin was probably her desire to live, not a choice or planned thing, just an immediate reaction to protect herself

Serenity09 wrote:

i have no idea if reiner is from inside the walls or not, regardless of annie's origin. i think he might be from within but i don't really have anything to say why. on the other hand, he seems to have even less emotional attachment to the kingdom than annie does, but with the amount of shit that's happened to everyone this could be because of many things.

Not being emotionally attached doesnt mean that they arent from that city, they have to be detached because of the nature of what they are doing

Serenity09 wrote:

if annie isn't from around here: erren's dad was also originally from wherever-annie's-from and stole something important before fleeing. annie came to retrieve it. this would explain why reiner and annie took the huge risk to kidnap erren after hearing (from erwin's general announcement) that some top secret weapon to combat titans (what erwin said / made up) was located in erren's basement.

Part of this is what i think too, the part about the reason they went to kidnap erren is because they want w/e is in that basement (or info about it and they think erren knows more then he does)
I dont think anyone is from another city though

Serenity09 wrote:

lmao. they have established that there were some pretty powerful members. #foreshadowing
i could actually see it though. i think if annie (and/or co.) are from within the walls, they are my #1 suspects for the masterminds. that actually does kinda strike me as being very possible. annie has that kinda zealous mindless feel and the church priests definitelyyyy have the zealous self-righteous feel.

I dont think annie is part of that church, and i dont think they are the masterminds, just that they know a lot more then theyve let on

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I dont know, special orders doesnt seem likely to me as they dont really accomplish anything, most of them arent even focused on 1 specific thing like you would expect from something following an order
I figured they might be like new recruits, still learning how to control themselves as titans, if you bring up a specific abnormal that doesnt fit that i could probably come up with a plausible explanation that ties into some human desire

maybe it could be new recruits, but it'd be weird if it was like that. especially since some of the abnormals are so much stronger / have greater finesse. like the jumping titan from frost. it wouldnt really make sense for his "strength" to be from inexperience. it'd make even less sense as an order. "titan #3: i want you to ignore all troops and run for their civs. alright that sounds good, titan #4: i want you... i want you to jump. a lot." maybe if the order was to attack from the air but yeah probably not too likely
i guess ill go back to my original theory, that it comes from a defining characteristic when they were human. but this doesn't totally work out, because everyone has defining characteristics but there aren't many abnormal titans. and besides, some of the abnormal traits are very specific or just weird. i guess the 15 meter abnormal that crawled could have been a person who was abnormally shy, and the ones that ignore troops could have been people who only attack the weak
im not sure about the abnormal in the expedition arc (that wasn't annie) that ignored all the outer troops in order to attack Erren's location. that's actually the one that made me think it was orders. but it never got that far to attack erren, the people just said that's what it was doing, maybe it wasn't.

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Annie was still killing people though when she was attacking so i dont think she had a change of heart, sure she didnt kill people she knew, but thats not a change of heart, a change of heart would be to not kill anyone since she couldve easily covered her neck and not attacked the whole time, none of them posed a threat to her yet she still killed, so she should still be working with the colossal titan (since she was working with reiner who we are assuming is armored titan and is working with colossal for the reason i said above)

that's not really true though. she was strong but she was far from invulnerable. she was able to keep her mobility by not letting anyone hit her. if she hadn't killed anyone than she would have been so outnumbered that they could have easily taken her tendons than her arms etc. she coulda killed less people, but she couldn't leave everyone alive either.

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So either way, if colossal is erwin she would know erens true position without having to get it from reiner first

like i said, erwin the colossal almost definitely would be the same as erwin the conquerer. if he is the colossal then i am expecting him to betray everyone

i was going to immediately agree with you about erwin's style but then after i finished writing about erwin's style i realized his style isn't finesseful at all.
i think erwin's brilliant and he certainly has finesse but i definitely would not say he's dictated by it. like the entire expedition arc is incredibly blunt forced and excessive, it was anything but finesse. but he does tend to try and use finesse when he can... im not sure what solution would have been as effective as suddenly kicking in the door and letting the titans take it. in general, he definitely chooses "effective" and "likely to succeed" over "finesse" and is very quick to discard finesse.

we've also never seen how erwin handles disposable and infinite troops. he treats his own soldiers pretty disposably as is (when its for his goal) currently, maybe if he had an infinite number it would be the same

it still doesn't fit his personality

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I only remember the flashbacks from the last ep, and i figured she told her dad she was a titan at some earlier point (and possibly what she was going to do) and he disowned her only to later realize she was right and told her hes on her side

that's very different from my impression. i felt like he had just sold her out or signed her up for something

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Not being emotionally attached doesnt mean that they arent from that city, they have to be detached because of the nature of what they are doing

i said that. you even quoted the part where i said that

Serenity09 wrote:

maybe it could be new recruits, but it'd be weird if it was like that. especially since some of the abnormals are so much stronger / have greater finesse. like the jumping titan from frost. it wouldnt really make sense for his "strength" to be from inexperience. it'd make even less sense as an order. "titan #3: i want you to ignore all troops and run for their civs. alright that sounds good, titan #4: i want you... i want you to jump. a lot." maybe if the order was to attack from the air but yeah probably not too likely
i guess ill go back to my original theory, that it comes from a defining characteristic when they were human. but this doesn't totally work out, because everyone has defining characteristics but there aren't many abnormal titans. and besides, some of the abnormal traits are very specific or just weird. i guess the 15 meter abnormal that crawled could have been a person who was abnormally shy, and the ones that ignore troops could have been people who only attack the weak

I dont think new recruits is a strong theory, just the only thing that makes sense to me since orders seems unlikely and their arent many other possibilities
For the jumping titan he was either a fat person that desired to be athletic, or he desired to use the 3d maneuver gear but failed training

Serenity09 wrote:

im not sure about the abnormal in the expedition arc (that wasn't annie) that ignored all the outer troops in order to attack Erren's location. that's actually the one that made me think it was orders. but it never got that far to attack erren, the people just said that's what it was doing, maybe it wasn't.

Yeah that does seem like orders, but he could have just been ignoring them and happened to be going in that direction for other reasons too, or its possible that specific abnormal was under orders, doesnt mean they all are

Serenity09 wrote:

that's not really true though. she was strong but she was far from invulnerable. she was able to keep her mobility by not letting anyone hit her. if she hadn't killed anyone than she would have been so outnumbered that they could have easily taken her tendons than her arms etc. she coulda killed less people, but she couldn't leave everyone alive either.

Ok, maybe killing no one wasnt an option no matter what, but she definitely couldve killed less like you said, which was the point i was trying to get at by saying she didnt have to kill, shouldve said "she wouldnt kill as many" rather then "she wouldnt kill anyone"

Serenity09 wrote:

i was going to immediately agree with you about erwin's style but then after i finished writing about erwin's style i realized his style isn't finesseful at all.
i think erwin's brilliant and he certainly has finesse but i definitely would not say he's dictated by it. like the entire expedition arc is incredibly blunt forced and excessive, it was anything but finesse. but he does tend to try and use finesse when he can... im not sure what solution would have been as effective as suddenly kicking in the door and letting the titans take it. in general, he definitely chooses "effective" and "likely to succeed" over "finesse" and is very quick to discard finesse.

we've also never seen how erwin handles disposable and infinite troops. he treats his own soldiers pretty disposably as is (when its for his goal) currently, maybe if he had an infinite number it would be the same

it still doesn't fit his personality

Hmm, i can agree with that, i still say he would go with finesse first, and if that wont work then he will go with anything that will, in this case though i think finesse would be the right call, no reason to go overboard like that first attack, unless hes trying to conquer, but i really dont think he is

Serenity09 wrote:

that's very different from my impression. i felt like he had just sold her out or signed her up for something

I thought that at first too cause of the reaction on her face, but then couldnt think of anything that he would sign her up for that fit, unless it was to become a titan-human and fight with the other titan-humans, but that doesnt really fit either since he wouldnt be a source of strength for her if that was the case

Serenity09 wrote:

i said that. you even quoted the part where i said that

I know that, but you seemed to ignore it in favor of using detachment as a way to have a multiple city theory, so i figured i had to say it